Hope's Plan for Quarterback
by bbxxj on Feb 9, 2012 10:09 AM EST
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PrintRightfully so there have been alot of jokes and maybe some frustration running around about the number of quarterbacks committed for next year coinciding with how the two quarterback system was run last year. I like many of you don't like the idea of a pure two quarterback rotation and so I wanted to get some clarity on if this was actually likely to be the case. I want to share with you a little bit of what I found and what I think it means. I am no means an expert and I very well could be dead wrong but I think I have rounded up some decent conclusions.
One of the more important bits of info I came across was actually straight out of Hope's mouth in his most recent Gold and Black Live. He described in a few minutes his plan for the quarterback position. He wants to name a starter and it seems like he prefers that starter to be a more traditional drop-back passer. He also wants one or several athlete quarterbacks who will primarily line up at other spots like halfback or wideout but take a sizable amount of surprise wildcat snaps. He envisions moving the pocket passer out wide forcing the defense to put a man on him thus thinning the interior defense so the athlete quarterback has more room to run. Hope also said he wants the number two quarterback to take regular game snaps at quarterback so if the number one goes down the team isn't finished.
Hope said this has been his plan for a while but was derailed by injury. He wanted Marve to be the starter and then line up Henry (and I also assume Siller) everywhere including quarterback. With both of these guys back we might be able to see this Hope quarterback master plan come together for a full season in 2012. After these guys are gone it is clear, after I looked at all of the recruits as a whole, that Hope is setting up this system for the next half decade.
Lets look at how these guys will fit:
Austin Appleby:
6'5" 225
Rivals: NR Pro Style
Scout: 62 Overall QB
Appleby in my opinion the real gem of this class. He is likely underrated by scouting agencies because of his recent injury and poor high school numbers. However from everything I can gather (scouting reports, Elite 11 film, etc) he is a natural leader with BCS level size and arm. I believe he is the guy Hope is banking on being the 'starter' and primary quarterback. At 6-5 and pretty athletic he also can line up as a wide receiver in wildcat formations and defenses will have to honor him.
Bilal Marshall:
6'3" 170
Rivals: 18 Dual Threat
Scout: 60 Overall QB
Hope spoke of Marshall very highly in his Gold and Black Live show, calling him the best dual threat quarterback on his board. I expect Hope to want to play him all over the place and be his next Henry/Siller but also give him a healthy amount of quarterback snaps as the number two. As he calls it, Marshall is the type of quarterback you can keep in the 'same huddle' as the starter meaning you can have two quarterbacks on the field at all times and not hurt yourself at other positions.
Robert Gregory:
6'3" 180
Rivals: 14 Dual Threat
Scout: 40 Overall QB
Hope didn't say a ton about Gregory as he hadn't officially signed yet but from his scouting reports and Rivals' ranking it looks like Gregory is going to be given the chance to compete with Marshall for the 'second quarterback in the huddle' role. I can also imagine if you can have one athlete quarterback playing another position why couldn't you have two or three? If both guys are as good or better athletes than what we have at WR/RB why not play them all there to get the best athletes on the field and create confusion for the defense about who is going to take the snap. All three guys are nearly identical size at 6'3" and are said to have great speed so why not play them all at TE/WR at least in rotation or full time?
Aloyis Gray:
6'3" 165
Rivals: 24 Dual Threat
Scout: 155 Wide Receiver
Of the three athlete quarterbacks it seems like Gray is the most likely to convert completely to wide receiver. For an undisclosed reason only played half of his high school senior season at quarterback and is listed by Scout.com as a wider receiver not a quarterback. I think he will be given a legit shot to compete to play quarterback but I think Hope is expecting him to be a wide receiver or maybe on defense somewhere. I think I remember, but don't quote me because I can't find the link, that Gray is the guy Hope said he never even saw throw a pass during the recruitment process.
Erich Berzinskas:
6'5" 205
Rivals: NR Pro Style
Scout: NR Overall QB
Berzinskas is an interesting case. He has already played post high school ball at Milford Academy which is a place kids go to get noticed by schools if they feel they were under recruited in high school for whatever reason. He clearly has the size to be a pocket passer like Appleby and reports are good about his accuracy and arm strength. I think he is being brought in to be the number two pro style quarterback behind Appleby but who knows maybe he is a diamond in the rough who unjustly went unnoticed last year and will be our future starter.
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Great summary, thx!
So now how does Henry and Robinson fit in?
I would say this is where Henry fits in
Hope said this has been his plan for a while but was derailed by injury. He wanted Marve to be the starter and then line up Henry (and I also assume Siller) everywhere including quarterback
As a wildcat back and Robinson is probably wildcat back #2 or 3 deep on the pro style starter behind Terbush.
Sorry, I meant how does Henry fits in with the frosh
If CTB and RM graduated next year, then Hope’s plan is to play Appleby/Berzinskas and let Henry be one of the WR/RB, or actually let Henry be the main guy?
Thank you!
This sounds like a great conclusion. I was hoping this would be the case but doubted it would happen. That kind of thing never seems to happen. I don’t know, maybe there’s a reason this doesn’t work and more teams aren’t trying it. Sounds genious to me.
If our offensive line prospects pan out well
Then Appleby can be a star. Otherwise, I’m nervous. He’s not a very mobile quarterback and we definitely don’t want him running and getting tackled. Not with a previous ACL injury.
Reaction images? I got 'em
Senior All-American Alto Sax
Why nervous?
Even if Appleby doesn’t pan out, we still have 4 other QBs in this year’s class and probably another 4 coming in next year :-)
Regardless of what we do, this seems to be a good problem to have.
Especially when you compare to the last few years when we didn’t have a lot to work with.
Close by the Wabash, In famed Hoosier land, Stands old Purdue, Serene and Grand, Cherished in Memory,By all her sons and daughters true, Fair Alma Mater, All Hail Purdue
True
And if we just forget about the QB label for now and just see the “dual-threat” QB means athletes with leadership, then it is probably great to have as many of those (except at some point you cannot have all leaders and no followers even though we are playing in the Leaders division … or the Legends? Damn, I can never figure out which is which)
Surprise! We only have 10 useful players on the field!
He envisions moving the pocket passer out wide forcing the defense to put a man on him thus thinning the interior defense so the athlete quarterback has more room to run.
This is asinine. The defense would have to put a man on a receiver, and that man would actually have to consider the receiver a threat.
Leaving the quarterback on the field is an advantage for the defense. No team is going to be caught so unprepared that this makes sense as a strategy.
Leaving the qb on the field is not an advantage for the defense.
If the qb is left uncovered it will be an easy 1st down pick up which a defense is not going to allow. The main idea of moving out the QB to the WR position and having your dual threat QB come in for the wildcat is that it keeps the defense on its heels and keeps less men in the box to defend the QB keeper or option.
"Keeps the defense on it's heels"
It doesn’t do that. The defense is familiar with the formation, has practiced for it, and knows their assignments. They know what the calls will be if the offense lines up in the wildcat. If anything, the wildcat causes defenses to be more aggressive, since the threat of a pass is severely downgraded.
No cornerback is concerned with a quarterback split wide. He can focus solely on the run at the snap of the ball with the confidence that if it is a pass, he can recover. A run to the quarterback’s side is far less effective because he is assuredly a poor blocker. No defense in the world would trade that situation for having an extra linebacker or lineman in against a formation with an additional threat. The quarterback will get some token attention, mostly a player lined up across from him, but that would be the case regardless of who is in that position, and an actual receiver would actually present a reason for the defense to pay attention to them.
by Ray Williams? on Feb 10, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
It does require the defense to stay attentive though. If the ‘wildcat’ QB is already on the field then the offense can switch in and out QBs out of the huddle so if a defense isn’t paying full attention it could burn them.
http://theboilermaker.blogspot.com/
by Bryan Steedman on Feb 10, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
If the defense isn’t paying attention they have much, much bigger problems than a running play out of a different formation.
It’s not really that tough to figure out what is going on when Caleb TerBush lopes to the outside. Even a Bill Callahan team would know the score.
by Ray Williams? on Feb 10, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
It was pointed out before but there was numerous times TerBush was left alone. Would have been easy to throw to a wide open guy even if its a slow QB if Purdue had opened up the wildcat for Siller a bit.
http://theboilermaker.blogspot.com/
by Bryan Steedman on Feb 10, 2012 9:17 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think your primise that having the starter out wide doesn’t remove a defender from the run game is false. If you run a sweep wide to his side then maybe the corner will have a chance but if the dual threat runs in between the tackles then a man will have been effectively removed from their interior run defense.
Also consider if the formation is four or three wide recovers the defense will likely change to a nickel or a dime. Once this happens you can switch your starter for your dual threat who was a wideout and run a power run or option against a nickel or dime defense that has had no chance to switch.
Jason Heyward wins at baseball.
by bbxxj on Feb 10, 2012 2:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Having the quarterback out wide does less than having a receiver out wide. I didn’t advocate having the quarterback sit on the turf thirty yards behind the formation. The guy standing with the quarterback will probably not make the play if you run away from him, just like he won’t with a receiver there. He’s also got a pretty good chance to make the play with if you go to that side. Are you going to run outside towards the quarterback? Probably not very often. Basically, you gain the opportunity to have the defense change their call immediately, while going down a player on offense and making it more difficult to gain yards to one side of the field because you have a significant mismatch.
The personel doesn’t make a difference, the defense has players on the field to match up with what is out there. It’s tough to go with a “power” run when you have three wide receivers and a second quarterback on the field, if you’re trying to take advantage of a passing defense.
by Ray Williams? on Feb 10, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Would you be more supportive if it was a quassi mobile QB out wide a la Marve?
http://theboilermaker.blogspot.com/
by Bryan Steedman on Feb 10, 2012 9:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Something else to consider by occasionally having the starting QB go out wide and the dual threat under center is the lateral pass allowing the starting QB to complete a forward pass. Ray if what you are saying is true and the corner leaves his assignment to Blitz, this gives the wide out QB plenty of time to connect down field. Maybe I am completely on this rule though and if so please disregard that argument.
I didn't say he blitzes.
He’s plays hard against the run, and the quarterback is not able to block him or take advantage of the fact that the defender is thinking run first, since he is a quarterback, and the corner would be able to pick him back up after he reads pass.
by Ray Williams? on Feb 11, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe a visual will help
This set up is your conventional shotgun with three wide receivers. The defense shows a four man front nickel defense to defend the pass and rush the passer. Notice there are only six defenders in the box with the strong safety creeping in to defend the tight end pass. Now look what you can do against this defense if the ‘P’ pro-style passer and ‘D’ dual threat are switched just seconds before the snap as to not allow many coordinated adjustments by the defense.
By making the quarterback a running back against a nickel or dime defense you can win the number game up front. Both right side linemen can be doubled and with the running back and chipping center you can block the two (not three) linebackers. So if you do this consistently the defensive coordinator will likely start sending corners or safeties. If the run is in the box it won’t matter as the defensive backs wont have time to effect the play. On an outside run or option the dual threat should have an initial read on the corners to see if they are blitzing. If they are he will pull up and do something like this.
In this play the dual threat will be running an outside run or option to the left but notices the nickel corner on a run blitz. The left two wide outs are already playing to this eventuality and the dual threat stops and lobs an easy pass over the blitzing corner to the slot receiver. The remaining corner is being blocked by a 6’5" 220+ Appleby and so the slot guy should have some space to run.
I could write up these plays all day but I’ll spare you all. This kind of stuff isn’t the offense but sub packages run to take advantage of numbers and mismatches.
Jason Heyward wins at baseball.
switched just seconds before the snap
That’s not really the way it works. The quarterback actually has to get into position. He has to run 50-70’ to get where he needs to be, and then has to get set. As a quarterback, he takes extra time with the linesman to make sure he is on the line. The defense has plenty of time to get in position. They aren’t scrambling to get in position on wildcat plays. it’s not an abstract idea, these plays have happened.
The quarterback, despite his size, is not a good blocker. He is not practicing blocking, and is most likely outmatched in strength and severely outmatched in quickness.
Regardless, none of this makes a difference, the circumstances would be the same if the quarterback is taken out, and a player of use is brought on the field. The defense doesn’t get to use more guys if the quarterback is out.
by Ray Williams? on Feb 11, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Know what's cool about three dual threat qb's?
A triple option with three legitimate passers with very good speed.
Yes, it is cool and exciting. This isn’t the way for Purdue to get back the thrill of football. Besides being ‘cool and hip’ this offensive style is risky, riskier than a 98% pass offense?, probably not, but it is risky because all the players need to be on the same page. Given our mental capabilities we have seen on some simple DH special trick plays and overall game management, we do not have the capacity to run this effectively. We can use it to surprize on a few downs per quarter. We cannot have 3 potential QB’s on the field and each of them acting and running around like they are the main QB in a school yard touch football game. Of course, the numerous plays in 2011 of having the CTB and the Marve pocket rollout plays really seal my last sentence about school yard plays.
To get the thrill of Purdue football back
You just need to win the games. I don’t care how they do it, and neither should you. In case you haven’t noticed, the games of college football and NFL are vastly different. In college, an option attack can be very effective. My point was that not all these dual threat qbs will be quarterbacks, but switch to possibly wide receiver. And if they do play wide receiver, it’s nice to know that they can still throw the ball for a wildcat play, like you said, here and there.
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