To The H&R Community, please read
by AAMB Boiler on Feb 6, 2012 8:22 AM EST
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PrintPurdue fans, huddle up.
After our loss to IU, I made it a point to try to stay off the site for at least 24 hours, just to let myself cool down. That loss sucked, there's no two ways about it. Though I refrained from joining the fray of comments, I did read everything people were saying to one another, and I felt compelled to give an opinion on "fan-dom".
There's been a lot of "optimistic" fans bashing "pessimistic" fans, and likewise "pessimistic" fans bashing "optimistic" fans. Look, we all have differing viewpoints in life, none of us have had the same upbringing, none of us see things the same way. The beauty of this blog community we've developed IS our diverse viewpoints. I got into it the other day over one of my hate week posts with a guy twice my age. Where else is that going to happen?
My point is this people. We're all fans. We're all BOILERMAKER fans. The term "fair weather fan" is being thrown around a lot, and I don't believe that term applies to anyone reading this. A fair weather fan doesn't take the time to sign up for an SB Nation account, and then wait the 24 hours to voice their opinion. A fair weather fan doesn't take the time to log on after a frustrating loss to blow off steam. A fair weather fan says "Oh well", and throws on an IU or ND or you name it flavor of the week team jersey. Purdue fans don't do that though. It's because Purdue fans are passionate about their team that they get so frustrated when they see that team fall short of their potential. Sure we have visitors whose primary membership is somewhere else, but I'm talking to you, the H&R community, who signed up just to be heard on this site.
So what if some people get mad and think the sky is falling? So what if others think we're gonna run the table each year until proven otherwise? We're all Purdue fans first, and we're all cheering for the same team. Regardless of our outlook on the remainder of the season, I'm sure everyone will be glued to TV, radio, or present in Mackey for each of our remaining games, cheering on the Boilers. Isn't that all that matters? All this talk of shaming people for the way the carry themselves as a fan is useless. All it does is start a big pissing contest and before you know it we have a big "argument thread" that's as long as the gamethread from the game that got people upset to begin with.
Finally, you may think I'm just some peace-nick trying to smooth everything out and make everyone gather round and sing kumbaya, and that's fine. (Though I think if you look at my fan posts last week, you'll see I'm anything but a peacemaker)
I urge you to remember what oldboiler and a few others have told us this season. Up and coming recruits read these blogs and these message boards. I for one don't want to put out an image of a divided fan base that spends more time bickering than cheering for the team. We all know that nothing could be further from truth.
We say that "Loyalty Lives Here", so let's be loyal to our fellow fans. Boiler Up.
Stuff in the FanPosts is entirely at the discretion of those that post them. They do not represent the views of Hammer & Rails, SBNation, or Purdue University in any way.
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Nice piece
I appreciate this kind of writing. Hopefully it will help out a little.
On another note. I can’t wait to have A.J., Raphael, Jay and Ronnie next year!
Hell yes!
I’m proud to be a Boilermaker. BTFU!
Boiler Up
Losing to IU will make people crazy. Losing at home to IU will cause people to go apesh*t crazy. Purdue Basketball will be elite as soon as next year.
Don't start that we will be elite next year stuff.
We have given IU fans crap for that for years so let’s not join in. We can’t expect the freshmen next year to make us elite right away. If you think top 25 is elite, then maybe. But I would only consider about 5 teams each year as elite. If you think we will be one of those 5 teams next year, or even the year after, I think your expectations are way out of line.
Amen brother
I spent 3 hours after the game defending my Boilers on facebook to all the Hoosier “fans” still wiping the dust off their IU rhetoric. Be you optimistic or pessimistic, just be a Boiler baby! Boiler up for life!
BTFU
I watched the game in downtown INDY with about 100 IU fans. I’d still rather be a Boilermaker after a loss than a Hoosier any day of the week.
Boiler Up!
Whether you, as a fan, are pessismistic or optimistic about what the rest of the 2011-2012 season holds for our Boilers, let’s just support these young men. As frustrating/disappointing/fill-in-the-blank it’s been for us as fans, think about how the team must be feeling – most of these guys are used to winning on a consistent basis (particularly at home), and I have no doubt that they have been trying their best to continually improve, both individually and as team, throughout this season. (I truly think that Robbie and LewJack’s limited practice have contributed to the struggles of the team – how can the team play in a cohesive manner in an actual game when the whole team doesn’t practice together?) Whatever happens, let’s just keep cheering these guys on!
Respectfully disagree
I like you a lot, AAMB. I appreciate you trying to make peace here (at least within the Purdue fans). But I’ll have to disagree with you on a lot of fronts:
Up and coming recruits read these blogs and these message boards. I for one don’t want to put out an image of a divided fan base that spends more time bickering than cheering for the team.
Precisely b/c the new recruits are reading this blog, that’s why we should have fans bashing each other. Otherwise, they go bash the players. For example, it looks like TC once again become the new punch bag. Never mind that he got 2 quick fouls (the first one is Zeller pulling him down; the second is just TC bodying up Zeller, where likely he was instructed by Painter to play physical). Now if you are a recruit reading that, how would you feel? You see that the fans don’t support the players, and every time the player struggles a bit he got thrown under the bus. Never mind TC has made a lot of improvement from his early season. Never mind his game was never above the rim but more like using his big butt. As a player, I’d think it’s better to see fans bashing each other than bashing current players.
So what if some people get mad and think the sky is falling? So what if others think we’re gonna run the table each year until proven otherwise?
Bet with me! If you think the sky is falling and Purdue will not win one more game, I’ll take the other side! If you think we’ll run the table, I’ll take the other side. If you believe so passionately, back it up. That’s what civilized people do instead of just pointless bickering which would take forever and never settle anything. Pats fan think they should win and Giants fan said no – have a friendly, gentlemen bet. Doesn’t mean we hate each other. Far from it. We can be good friends and enjoy the game together, despite our differing opinion. Tell me what’s better: bashing each other and resolve nothing, or place a simple bet and resolve everything? With a simple bet, no more bashing needed. Just watch the games.
As someone else said elsewhere, I don’t think ppl here need to be lectured on how to be a fan. I give the benefit of doubt that the 99.9999999999999999% of folks here won’t cross the line. I for one would defend both the optimist and pessimist’s right to voice their opinion. I think that’s what makes this site great. If you can only maintain a certain kind of viewpoint, I don’t think ppl want to come here. I think that’s why we tolerate IU folks like JustAJ. So I’d suggest, let ppl speak (and hopefully they’ll at least have the guts to back up their claim). There are many ppl whose opinion I disagree, but I’ll defend their right to speak (even if it just makes a fool out of themselves when I point out their baseless claims…or perhaps, make a fool out of myself where I’ll learn a valuable lesson).
I agree whole-heartedly
For the first half of your comment, I agree TC did all he could, considering he was handcuffed by the officials. I thought he did as much as could with what the refs gave him.
As to the second part, maybe it because I don’t gamble, but I don’t see how placing bets over a comment thread solves anything. I can see that you believe very firmly in the betting philosophy to solve problems, but in this setting how is that going to work, considering you’re betting against people you’re likely never to meet face to face? You can arrange something over pay-pal I suppose, but that involves divulging personal information, which in this day and age of identity theft is not the wisest choice. I mean, I can say, “Sure cpig, I’ll bet that Purdue doesn’t win a game for the rest of the year. If I’m right, you pay me $1, if I’m wrong, I pay you $100” (seems to be your standard offer) Wonderful. But if I’m wrong am I really going to pay? Is there any penalty for not paying? Of course not. My paying you would be entirely on the honor system. I guess you could damage my reputation by saying “He didn’t pay!”, but then again no one else wants to bet on here, so it really doesn’t matter what my gambling reputation is. I might as well bet 74.3 billion dollars, the end result that I’m going to pay out is the same. I’m not trying to step on your toes here, I just fail to see how the bet resolves anything. Even if the transaction goes through, what’s been proven? Yeah, one is proven right and the other is proven wrong, but that could’ve been accomplished simply by publishing differing predictions. The only difference with the bet is that now someone has more money, which probably will result in some grudges.
Lastly, I have no problem with fans disagreeing, that was my point in the second quote there. What caught my attention over the weekend was the repeated attacking each other for being “fair weather fans”, or people saying, “you’re not a true fan”. By all means disagree, but do it respectfully, and remember that we’re all on the same side here. Talk about the team, talk about the coach, agree, disagree, it doesn’t matter. From reading the comments, you’d think the fans on here were bitter rivals and wanted nothing more than see the other dead.
I agree on TC
and I have been troubled by some of the stuff posted on here about him. If I were a recruit that sort of thing would jump out at me.
by GeorgiaBoiler on Feb 6, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Understood
But let me clarify on the betting part. Yes, there is credit risk – the other party may not pay. But to me, that is minor. It’s more like bragging right. When I place a gentlemen bet with others, I expect myself to pay up if I lose, but if I win, I expect the worst. If the other party pays, great; if not, I still have the bragging right. Don’t you think that’s a better way than bashing each other? Man up or shut up, it’s really that simple. And I am willing to take either side – whether you think the sky is falling or that we are about to run the table, I am here for both of you to make some money off your conviction. And no, it doesn’t have to be 100:1. I can offer even odd for anyone who feels strongly about it one way or another. See how great a service I am providing and no one even thanks me! I am here to help resolve conflict peacefully!
The only difference with the bet is that now someone has more money, which probably will result in some grudges.
This is a misconception. You don’t have to be a sore loser unless you choose to. According to your twisted logic, maybe we shouldn’t even play pick-up basketball b/c one team would definitely lose and there will be grudges. Definitely untrue! Pick-up basketball can be very fun and even though there will be winners and losers, BOTH sides can be happy and respect each other and enjoy the competition.
From reading the comments, you’d think the fans on here were bitter rivals and wanted nothing more than see the other dead
No, I didn’t get that from bickering fans wanting each other dead, at least I don’t wish anyone dead here and I have made a lot of enemies (maybe someone did wish me dead I dunno). However, if I have to guess, maybe JustAJ did want to see you dead after ur Hate Week posts, so you watch out ;-)
I respect your opinion,
But I really don’t think we should use H&R as a gambling site. It really degrades the value of the site. At least it does so for me. If you’d like to wager bets, just get his contact information.
"Hummel for three..... BULLSEYE!!!"
"wanna bet"
is like what kids say when they’re arguing on the playground. Adults just agree to disagree, and they’re usually fine with it.
by Bloomington.Boiler on Feb 6, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Definitely untrue, Mitt Romney offered Rick Perry a bet too
And last I checked, Romney is an adult who is leading in representing his party to be the presidential candidate, so potentially he’ll be the next U.S. President. I’d think he’s a serious person (and he also happens to have lots of $, but that’s another story).
If you don’t like bets, you can decline the bet. No one can force you to bet. Adults usually do not just agree to disagree, they bicker and blast each other endlessly, as we’ve witnessed on this site that AAMB bothers to write a long article to tell us to stop.
I have to thank you
For reminding me that I have pork chops in the freezer. Dinner will be delicious tomorrow.
I respect your opinion
But I really don’t see how a friendly bet is “gambling” and that it “degrades” the site. If anything, endless blasting each other and bickering and calling each other “not a true fan” or “putting blinders on” would seem to do more “degrading.” Throwing players under the bus (e.g. TC) or wishing a player never play again this season (however well-intention) would seem to be more “degrading.”
Also, academic research has shown that your so-called “gambling” in the form of prediction market has tremendous value (see intrade.com). You may be surprised at the power of crowd’s wisdom.
I'm getting at the consistent wagering on every minute aspect of an argument
I have no problem with placing bets on games or something like that, but to offer a bet every 2 or 3 comments is a bit much.
"Hummel for three..... BULLSEYE!!!"
Now we're onto something
I think we’ve found some common ground. Remove the financial element and place a bet for some bragging rights, I’m all for it. Presently I don’t have any disagreement with you that I feel strongly enough to bet about, but when and if I do, I’ll gladly bet for bragging rights. Something like, on the game wrap up after I was wrong, I’ll put up a post in the comments “I WAS WRONG, CHARLESPIG WAS RIGHT. HE IS THE GREATEST” lol, something like that. Like I said, I think our feelings on the season outlook are pretty similar right now (NCAA possible, NIT more likely), but if we find something to disagree about, I’ll take you up on a bragging rights bet. Loser can post a picture in an IU shirt or something. We’ll figure out how to prove it wasn’t ripped from the internet later.
Amen, thank you!
Exactly, a bet doesn’t have to be necessarily financial. I forget whom but I think one of the guys promised to run butt-naked around campus if we won a NC.
Normally, I’d happily take the “I was wrong – Charlespig is greatest”. But after seeing what you can do with the Hate Week posts, if we were to bet, I’d demand sth more ;-) Your IU shirt idea sounds interesting though.
Let’s keep watching our favorite Boiler and cheering!!!
Whatever your POV....
The bottom line is, we all care. We’re having a down year and I’ll bet the amount of traffic on this site is greater than ever. That’s because we give a s#*t. It’s the one thing we all have in common.
by Hummel's figurines on Feb 6, 2012 3:50 PM EST reply actions
If I were a recruit
I would want to play at a school that demanded a winner. If that meant a divided fan base, so be it.
And as a fan, I don’t want a kid coming in here who doesn’t want to be criticized. I want a kid who knows he’s going to have to work.
I will continue to be “pessimistic” as long as this team fails to meet my expectations and I don’t really care if others in the Boiler community disagree with me.
I care
That’s why I’m so pissed. WTF? how can you miss that badly on Bade and now Carroll and not recruit rebounding??? It blows my mind, I knew this would be a “down” year but losing to IU at home is UNACCEPTABLE.
by jerrybear on Feb 6, 2012 5:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I feel the same.
IU players jumping into the stands and high fiving IU fans and IU people singing their stupid fight song in our arena is something that should NEVER happen.
by GeorgiaBoiler on Feb 6, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My sentiments exactly...
The problem with this site isn’t the dissenting viewpoints, it’s that it takes itself SO FREAKING SERIOUSLY. Obviously, everyone here is either a diehard Boiler fan (or an IU fan pretending not to be a troll). Everyone also grieves differently, and it feels like the people who want to call a spade a spade get sneered at here for not being good little soldiers and falling in line with the “all we can do is move forward” mantra. I’m of the camp that gave up NCAA hopes a few games back, but I still watch EVERY single game because Boiler basketball was my first love. I don’t think that makes me a quitter.
There are literally DOZENS of us!
by Tracer Bullet 82 on Feb 6, 2012 7:43 PM EST reply actions
This Year vs. Next Year
Does everyone really think the team will be much better next year ? I think it might be 2-3 years before we become relevant again. You’re trading LewJack, Robbie and Ryne for RJ, Hammonds, and Hale/Lawson. Is that a trade up ?
Not saying we'll be awesome next year
But you know its not nearly that simple. Players develop, and the chemistry will be completely different. We don’t need to EXPECT a B1G title, but that doesn’t mean we can’t HOPE for an impressive team anyway.
Also, you forgot Ray D and Simpson, and I think Ray at least will be a pretty important piece of next years team.
It could be a trade up
LewJack and Robbie are playing at 50% of what they could be. You are also leaving out Davis and Simpson. I am wondering if Painter may redshirt Simpson, but Davis seems to be the scorer that can really help us.
I don’t think next year team will be MUCH better than this year. I don’t want to put unrealistic expectation on the frosh (and the 49-year-old red-shirt frosh Hale). However, I think one important aspect of next year’s team is that we shouldn’t need to play out of posn again. Lawson doesn’t have to be the 6-6 Center, nor the 6-4 Byrd need to battle the other team’s PF, nor the 6-2 TJ battling the other team’s SF when he is better suited bulling over the small guards with his strong body. These should really help!
The position thing is something I forgot to mention in my post below
That will be a very big element. I also think depending on play time and line ups we could see a lot of improvement on rebounding. We will have 5 forwards/centers and a couple guards/wings/whatever who are 6’4" or 6’5". Combine that with them playing their natural positions as well.
I think we might move up a spot or two in the Big Ten standings.
We will upset some people and get upset. I think the two biggest factors are the play of Hammons and Davis.
If Hammons can even get 6 or so points average a night I think that alone will improve the quality of our offense. It is quite obvious between this year and last what the difference is between having a post player who can post someone up.
Davis is fairly obvious. I don’t know how well his jump shooting is, but even if his driving ability next year is 40% as effective as it is at LaLu, he will get a solid 6 or 7 points a game. I think that would be pretty reasonable expectations. I think there is a possibility he could average double digits if the transition isn’t as tough for him as it is for other players.
Ray D
I agree, he sounds like the real deal. He may be the guy we need when shots aren’t falling to get a bucket. Hopefully the new talent will gel with the group. If Marve can get a sixth year, maybe Rob should try.
Onward and Upward, Boilers
I would argue that there are no ‘fair weather’ Purdue fans here…. or at least very very few. Fair weather fans don’t know about sites like this, nor do they frequent them, nor do they comment and make their opinions known.
I can clearly see that this site is full of passionate Purdue fans (and bored IU fans who couldn’t buy a conversation on their site). Some of us optimistic, some are pessimistic. What unites us is our passion for Purdue, and I would hope that this is what any possible recruits would recognize. No, we may not have NCAA banners hanging from the rafters, but we do have high standards.
And not one of us would disagree that this is a very frustrating season. Case in point – the IU game. A 4 pt game with 2:30 to go. Our shooting was beyond atrocious in the first half, and yet the game was in reach. Brought that game back, and could have beat a much improved IU squad. And it ends in a 17pt loss. We bury a couple of those 10 missed 3s in the first half and it’s a different game. But that’s this season. It’s not the way we wanted Robbie to go out. It’s not a record that reflects out talent level.We’re capable of more….. But that’s this season – a team that still seams to be missing some chemistry and synergy in February.
The key is to look forward. Forward to tomorrow when we play OSU (I know, that could be a bad one). Forward to whatever post season we earn. Forward to the next crop of recruits – THX for the updates, oldboiler!
>Hoosier by birth, Boilermaker by the grace of God
>Don't cry, MSU - It's just a game...
AMEN!!
Agree 100% with everything said.
by bleedoldgoldandblack on Feb 8, 2012 12:01 AM EST reply actions
OK Who Loses What next year in BIG?
OSU loses Buford, Sullenger &maybe Thomas. MSU—-Woods, Green, Thornton. Mich loses Douglas &Novac. IU —JonesIII & back-up center. Wisc—Taylor. Iowa—-point guard and 3pt shooter. Neb loses 4 starters. PSU—who cares. Just trying to say Purdue even with freshmen should be able to be really in the mix/good in the big ten. The new asst. coaches will have learned the BIG arenas and BIG team styles much better. So really BTFU!
I think Michigan scares me the most going forward.
They have a great core and bring in some great players next year. I’m sure OSU, MSU and IU will be very good next year as well, but I don’t look forward to playing UM.
thank u aamb!
very nicely written and a very good point!
loyalty lives here!!!
BTFU
Then Hail! All Hail To Old Purdue! Our Alma Mater True, And We'll Ever Stand, Ev'ry Heart And Hand, For The Honor Of Old Purdue!
twitter.com/jennnnnnnnnnFL
by jennnnnn on Feb 17, 2012 6:04 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
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