Reality Sucks, Doesn't It?
by HawkeyeBoiler on Feb 5, 2012 11:15 AM EST
in Men's Basketball
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PrintAs you know by now, I'm the anti-thesis to T-Mill at the site. His optimism clashes with my more reserved pessimism. The *17 point loss to IU basically confirms what I've said all year. We are a NIT team, because we play like one. NCAA tournament teams don't lose the ability to shoot for over 10 minutes a game. Play like that and you will lose 90 percent of the time.
17 point loss is such crap too. It was a 4 point game with 2:30 to go or close to it. Hopefully people don't just look at the box score and think the team got ran out of the gym, but I digress.
Basically, we are too role player heavy. You can't miss on recruiting in this day and age. Matt Painter was off target slightly the last few years and it's killing us. We don't have enough firepower to do any actual damage.
I think our biggest problem was expecting Robbie Hummel to carry us this season. Without him playing for so long, our expectations shot unreasonably high. RH is not the guy who is going to carry a team. It's not in his skill set. You put Rob alongside a true post player and he becomes a weapon. You make him take 15 to 20 shots a game and it's going to get ugly. Plus, he looks like he's playing on 3/4 a leg right now. It's sad to watch.
I'll probably get blasted for that paragraph, but prove to me that it's not true. I love Robbie as much as the next guy, but it was too much to expect him to carry us back to the Tourney.
The season isn't over yet, but the Dance seems like a pipe dream. I'm emotionally prepared for the NIT and the acknowledgment that reality tends to really suck.
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The Dance is never a pipe dream
There are eight games left to play. Three we should win, and getting a fourth might be enough. I certainly think we can beat Michigan, Illinois, or Indiana in Bloomington.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
By the way, the three we should win are Penn State, Northwestern, and Nebraska at home.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
If we play like we can play, we can easily get in.
Problem is, we haven’t played like that since either first half against Xavier or second half against Illinois.
We simply arent consistent enough to beat teams that can be perceived as better.
Football recruiting guy for Hammer and Rails
Lead blogger for 5 other sites.
Follow the Twitter for all the details
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Riles23
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Big10RantPurdue
by HawkeyeBoiler on Feb 5, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Disagree 100%
We can’t beat Michigan or Indiana at home. Why would we possibly beat them on the road? Everyone pretty much agrees you have to be 10 pts better than your opponent to beat them on the road. We’re not.
As for Illinois, if they actually show up to play, we’ll lose. They are just as inconsistent as us, so it’s hard to know which team will show up. I expect that to be a horribly ugly game.
We can beat them for one simple fact
They are different games and anything can happen.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
That's such a cop out
Everyone knows this. Realistically, though, what have you seen from Purdue to think it’s likely they’ll win one of those games?
the second half vs. Illinois
the way they played against Temple. our defensive performance in the first half last night.
if you want to surrender those gameswithout a fight go ahead. i still belive this team at least has a chance in every game, even tuesday at OSU
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
by BoilerTMill on Feb 5, 2012 2:12 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
agree 100% with your 100% disagreement
the Minny game was something we won’t see again this year, they just played out their asses plus Dj can only have that type of game against quality opponents maybe once every two years. Nw last week was, well I don;t know what that was….luck, digging deep for the will to win, or them just being NW?? Those 2 games saved the season, kept life for tourny going, I just can’t see them having the energy or tools left at this point. And CMP keeps confusing me to the point of frustration. Regardless, this team does not have the talent to be successful in this the hardest part of our schedule ahead
by Boilerhoosier91 on Feb 5, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
no
and if you want to quit, get out.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
by BoilerTMill on Feb 5, 2012 2:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
+ lim 1/(ln(t)) t--->1+
for you liberal arts & comm. majors out there (I’m lookin at you Travis) that would be infinity. Let the flakes wither, the true fans (even the more negative ones) aren’t going anywhere.
Very little chance we beat IU at home
For that to happen Ryne would have to find his shot.
It is tough to watch Rob
He has earned the chance to play however he can by going through so much rehab, but just isn’t the same player. He isn’t even the same player he was in nonconference. He seems to have lost a lot of confidence recently, and it really does suck to watch.
If anyone can overcome adversity though, it’s him, and he has more than earned that chance.
I also agree with Painter's sentiments
Travis Carroll got clowned by Zeller early and often yet never responded. He just took it. I thought everyone would be fired up after the technical foul…Nope. My only issue with Painter is I’m curious who is in or out of his doghouse. I feel like we never have even 4 or our top guys in at any given time. How is Lawson your third option behind Carroll and Sandi? I’d rather have him make mistakes than watch the other 2 guys look totally inept. The amazing thing is we still had a chance late. One thing that was weird was our terrible put back attempts on the few offensive rebounds we did have. Usually you are guaranteed a foul oppt if you bring it down first and put it back up. It looked like f-ing volleyball last night.
by grebek on Feb 5, 2012 11:33 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Can't totally blame TC
if he called Zeller a doo doo brain he probably would’ve been double technicaled and ejected. The Zeller coddling by the officials is obscene.
That tone was set right from the start
When zeller dragged TC down, I thought that should have been a no call and a warning but it was made clear that zeller could not even be looked at wrong without us getting called.
CMP off slightly the last few recruiting years???
Try Samsonite, WAAAAy off!!! Too many small school/town stars that can’t cut it in the big10…and a few are in the starting rotation for purdue.
Really pathetic……otherwise agree with hawkeye
by Boilerhoosier91 on Feb 5, 2012 11:38 AM EST reply actions
Make free throws...
and easy put backs and lay-ins and it’s a game Purdue wins. If you can’t do that, you’re not going to beat anyone. Interior defense is non existent without JJ. And people are correct to say that we missed recruiting anyone to play that position after JJ. We better hope Hammonds is good next year to help that situation. But someone still has to make FT’s and easy baskets.
He doesn't have to be amazing.
He just has to have some post moves. Carrol and Sandi play more of a moving body for screens than an actual post player.
I'm hoping for....
about 6-7 points, 8 rebounds per game next year. We should have several weapons in guards that we dont need Hammons to be our star next year, just need to produce.
Hawkeye, you're not alone
There’s a lot of optimism vs. pessimism debates on here, but I’m in your camp. I think we really expected too much from Robbie this year, and it is tough watching him try to shoulder the weight of an entire team.
Anyone else getting a “heal your meniscus” ad on this page? I really don’t like seeing that on a Purdue page.
Reality does suck
The reality yesterday was that iu can come into our house, go to our center court, stand there for a team huddle and there was nothing we could do about it. When I saw them do that, I was furious. I texted my wife back in Kansas that “iu just f’d up”. I guess I was wrong. Rivalries aren’t fun if the same team wins all the time, but this one sucked.
Wow, amazing hindsight bias
The *17 point loss to IU basically confirms what I’ve said all year. We are a NIT team
I don’t mind seeing the glass half-empty. I am that type of person too and frankly, sometimes I can’t stand TMill’s overly optimistic tone. But this is just ridiculous. You’ve been saying we are a NIT team ALL YEAR? Gimme a break.
Painter always says it is in adversity that we see the true character. I think I see yours. When time is tough some ppl just throw the towels in the name of “reality”. Reality is there is still a lot of basketball to play. Reality is that a true fan will support the team regardless, till the buzzer sound and the result is final. Reality is that up until the NCAA committee made their announcement, we still have a shot in making the Tournament. Reality is I am pretty sick of fair weather fan like you screaming the sky is falling at the first opportunity you can get and using “reality” as a disguise when there are so many better ways to support the team than declaring “I’ve been saying all year long this is a NIT team.”
God, I love the fact that NO ONE can say anything negative around here.
Think I’m a fair weather fan? Kiss my ass. Pretty sure a “fair weather fan” wouldnt cheer for Purdue when he lives in Iowa.
Right after the X collapse/Butler screwup, I prepped for the NIT. Tourney teams don’t let games like that slip away. They make a got damn statement.
name one statement we’ve made this year.
Football recruiting guy for Hammer and Rails
Lead blogger for 5 other sites.
Follow the Twitter for all the details
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Riles23
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Big10RantPurdue
by HawkeyeBoiler on Feb 5, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Agree with you hawkeye
You don’t have to be overwhelmed with optimism to the point of being blind to the facts.
I am as much as a fan as everyone else, I just refuse to blind myself into seeing something that isn’t there. I can support the team just as much as everyone else while also expecting that we aren’t making it to the NCAA tourney.
Reality is accepting things based on facts and evidence. Facts and evidence point to this team not being able to beat the better teams in our league which will leave us with a poor resume.
For the third time
I have absolutely no problem with people who are realistic, who sees the glass half empty, and even who are critical to the team (esp if their opinion is insightful).
What I have an issue is for people to give up before the buzzer is sound. If anything I’ve learned from Purdue basketball is that we are expected to play hard. To compete. And that’s for 40 minutes. We don’t stop competing b/c we are down 20 and only 5 minutes left. We keep play hard. If we lose, fine. If we are not as talented, fine. But no one should be able to say we don’t compete. No one should be able to say we quit.
Declaring us an NIT team before the NCAA committee makes their decision (and be so proud of that foresight) – heck, in your own words, even as early as early December at Xavier – wow, I am speechless.
Of course, you are fully entitled to your opinion. I’d challenge you to have a friendly bet: I pay you $1 if we go to NIT, which it looks like we are heading that way; you pay me $100 if for some miraculous reason we manage to get to NCAA, which should be impossible as you’ve acutely observed back in December. Deal?
Give one reason why the NCAA committee should pick us
Havent beat a ranked team, resume is slipping with a couple ugly losses.
We are a NIT team. If we make the tournament, thats fantastic. More than likely, we dont because we simply arent that good at basketball this year.
Football recruiting guy for Hammer and Rails
Lead blogger for 5 other sites.
Follow the Twitter for all the details
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Riles23
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Big10RantPurdue
by HawkeyeBoiler on Feb 5, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
B/c there are still 8 games to play plus the B1G Tourney
Look, if my life depends on it, I’ll say we are more likely heading to NIT than NCAA. I get the “reality.”
But look at PSU last year. They were the laughing stock for most of the year but make it to the B1G championship game, and lost its first round game only by 2. Do I think we will be like PSU? Honestly, no. Do I think we can make the Tourney? Absolutely yes.
You don’t have to agree with me. That’s why I offer a bet when there is disagreement.
Penn State was playing extremely well in Big Ten play.
Or do you not remember them beating ranked teams left and right, nearly beating aOSU AT Columbus and us needing to make a last second shot to beat them at Mackey? They also had wins over multiple ranked teams at this point in the season. We have done no such thing.
Up until Feb 10, PSU was 5-7 in B1G last year
My point being, there are still 8 games left in the conf. I know things don’t look good (e.g. I won’t put much hope on us winning at O$U where Duke and Florida got blown out), but I won’t throw in the towel and declare us a NIT team yet. Well, at least I won’t keep saying ALL YEAR LONG (as someone self proclaimed) that we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team; we are a NIT team – and even write a front page article to illustrate that point.
(Also, if you are gonna count close games for PSU, then we lost two tight games to Wisky and Mich. IU was still within reach with less than 3 minutes left. MSU was the real blow out but the travel condition was just far from optimal.)
Is there an ignore feature on these boards?
If I have to read one more ridiculous bet offer I’m going to punch a kitten.
I bet u r not gonna punch a kitten
Now go punch a kitten ;-)
Excellent
I was really just looking for an excuse to punch a kitten. I hate those things.
Perfect, don't just talk, walk the walk then
Better yet, show us the evidence so that you can claim the prize from me. I will back up my words and admit to my losing bet.
PETA does not approve
"The goal remains the same"
by TimeToPlayHard on Feb 5, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I love PETA
They always get the hot women to go bare naked. Now if someone can put a pix here to help me make my point…
PETA ad, no problem.
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
by GeorgiaBoiler on Feb 6, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
His constant talk about making bets is quite annoying.
I agree, it is absolutely annoying to those who only make outrageous claims w/o the guts to back up their words
Honestly, if not b/c some genius claimed that Wisky was a bad (read: NIT) team after they beat us at Mackey, I wouldn’t wanna bet. Why blame the person calling out the nonsense and not the senseless claim itself?
Well just call him out on it then
Asking to make bets just seems childish. We both know no one is actually going to take the bet.
Boilerhoosier91 did, and lost
Can you blame me to keep soliciting when I have won and made my point?
Keep betting people
i hope it annoys them to the point they stop making outrageous guarantees about the team
by jack'sIUdisdain on Feb 7, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Rob's role
Getting tired of this argument that he’s not comfortable with being the lead scorer. Every damn announcer says this to explain his struggles. That’s bull. I saw the guy drop 30 on OSU in the FIRST HALF 2 years ago in Mackey and he was dropping contested 3s like it was nothing. Now he’s flat out missing wide ass open jump shots. It’s not like the guy is forcing things and taking bad shots. He’s just missing them and he’s completely open. So someone explain this ‘new role’ argument to me because I’m not buying it.
He's pressing
If he would’ve got cold during that game, you let JJ or Smooge take over. Can’t do that now. There is no one else to handle the load, especially when Lewjack vanishes for an entire game.
No one doubts he can score, but taking 15 to 20 shots a game isnt his role.
Football recruiting guy for Hammer and Rails
Lead blogger for 5 other sites.
Follow the Twitter for all the details
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Riles23
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Big10RantPurdue
by HawkeyeBoiler on Feb 5, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, he did. But how many other times did he do that?
That answer is few, if at all. Moore lead the 07 class all three years they were together in scoring. JJ had a higher scoring average in his sophomore year than Robbie and had about the same their junior year. He is NOT a main-weapon. He is best when others are driving the lanes or causing people to play off of him to help defend other scorers… .aka JJ and Moore. He rarely took contested shots when he was with the other two. He also didn’t have the defense as focused on him as well as having their better defenders.
I swear, people have elevated Robbie’s abilities far above what they actually are since his junior year injury.
It's not about PPG
It’s about hitting open shots. He hit open shots 2 years ago, he’s not hitting them now. So you can’t blame it on better defense. In fact, that argument is sort of a lame one. It’s basically saying the only reason Hummel was ever good is because he had the other team’s weakest defender on him. I refuse to believe that.
He hit WAY open shots.
When he was guarded by lesser defenders and didn’t have to worry about carrying the offense. Now other teams can stay right on him and get a hand in his face every shot. He also has to worry about hitting more shots because the team stands around the perimeter the whole game.
He is missing WAY open shots now.
His FT% is also much lower than his freshman and junior season. That has very little to do with not having JJ and Moore in the team.
Look, I agree with you completely that Hummel’s natural role is not the #1 scorer of a team. He should be a 15ppg, 7rpg player who plays solid games, not someone who has to carry a team. But IMHO this is not the main reason why he is struggling. And while people have had unrealistic expectations for him this season, it’s not like all he could do offensively was taking advantage of lesser defenders and hit wide open shots. He definitely did not have to take as many contested shots as he does now. Hell, if he had to, then there were serious problems with the teams we had in 2007-2010. But to say that he rarely took contested shots seems to be a little unfair. Oh and JJ had a higher scoring average than Hummel in their sophomore season when Hummel played the majority of that season with an injured back.
I am not saying that Hummel’s the inside threat/shot creator that JJ and Moore were. But there had to be a reason why Hummel was Purdue’s first true freshman to be named 1st Team All-Big Ten and the one that was selected as the preseason Big Ten POY at the beginning of his sophomore season. And it’s not because he only dealt with lesser defenders and hit wide open shots.
Frankly speaking, if you watch him play now, it is easy to see that he lacks speed and lift. Sometimes his jump shot looks so bad because he is not going straight up. His pull-up shot has been affected by the lack of lift off the floor. His first step is not as quick as it was, which means he can’t beat slower defenders off the dribble like he used to. He is forcing things from time to time, but he would also be the first one to admit that he is missing shots that he used hit with consistency.
Ditto Frank
A healthy Rob Hummel would totally be able to carry a team. He could have averaged 20+ points, 8+ rebounds, 3 or 4 assists, etc if he was fully healthy this year. His skill set, competitive fire and guts and experience would have made him Big 10 player of the year.
But it is clear that he is not healthy, is not fully in game shape, is not as quick, does not jump as well, name your physical attribute. The lift in his legs for his shot is not what it needs to be and his shot is off and probably will be.
I find the “not a lead scorer” argument ignores what he did before he got hurt. He was certainly the equal of Moore and Johnson when he was healthy.
No, I won't blast you for the paragraph
I’ll probably get blasted for that paragraph
But I’ll blast you for wishing Robbie didn’t play for the rest of the year.
I kinda wish Robbie didnt play the rest of the year
When time is tough, all you think of is quitting. Stop playing. I think Robbie deserves better than that after what he has gone through. If he wants to play, I’ll support him in playing. I trust that he’ll know if he can’t contribute any more and call it an end. Until then, I hope Robbie gets to play however long he wishes.
Again, I don’t mind you being a “realist” or seeing things half-empty. I am that kind of person too. What I have a problem is the quitter mentality. It’s like, if we go to O$U and got blown out by 30 with 10 minutes to play, I want to see our players to still compete. Even if they are walk-ons or the 12th player on the team, but I expect them to still scrap for loose ball or dive on the floor. That’s what I expect from Purdue basketball – compete and play hard until the buzzer sound. Whereas, I’d think guys like you would already be writing on this site about how much an NIT team we are and that you have been saying it all year so that makes you Nostradamus.
BTW, if you are so damn sure we are an NIT team, let’s have a bet. If we go to NIT, I pay you $1, and if we go to NCAA, you pay me $100. Mind you, I’ve already had a bet with someone else on winning at NW b/c he thought we could not possibly have won there, and we both knew what happened.
First off, those might be the stupidest fucking odds I've ever had the misfortune to read.
I’m selfish. I want my memory and everyone’s memory of Robbie to be the energy, gritty player for the first 2.5 years of his career. Not the guy who is clearly struggling through knee injuries.
I applaud him for gutting it out. I love that. I’m not saying he should quit. I’m simply saying this season is a reality check to his purdue legacy that hurts a lot and everyone should see that.
Face it, everyone thought RH was going to ride in this year and carry us to the Dance. Reality hurts. The poor kid can’t even practice. It’s painful to watch. Not in the way like “holy hell get off the court” but in the way like "i see the struggle you going through. We love you, but you dont need to do this.
Football recruiting guy for Hammer and Rails
Lead blogger for 5 other sites.
Follow the Twitter for all the details
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Riles23
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Big10RantPurdue
by HawkeyeBoiler on Feb 5, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I gave a 1000:1 odd in another comment (I pay $1000, you pay me $1)
See “How about doing it the other way then?”
Enough with the bets
We get it your confident.
Saying “wanna bet on it” everys single time someone disagrees with you is not providing any vale to the conversation, and is needlessly pedantic.
If you have a better suggestion, I'd love to hear
Two passionate fans have differing opinion. They debate. They list why they are correct. They still can’t agree. So it’s about time where you put money where your mouth is. That’s what guys do at sports bar all the time. Doesn’t mean they hate each other. Heck, many times they enjoy watching the game together.
I dunno if you play street basketball. If someone walks in cocky and say things like everyone better go home b/c he is the best player, he better back it up and not just all talk and no substance.
How about doing it the other way then?
I say there is the United States will not declare war on Iran tomorrow, 2/6/2012. If they do, I pay you $1000. If they don’t, you pay me $1. That’s even better odds than 100:1, and tell me how am I not putting money where my mouth is?
Purdue making the NCAAs is not 100:1 and you know it
Your example is disingenuous at best
To you, it may not be
But to the Nostradamus who has been saying ALL YEAR LONG that Purdue is an NIT team, I think 100:1 is more than fair.
Well if you want to bet
then give some reasonable odds. 100:1 is not reasonable odds for a team that is still obviously on the bubble as of today.
100:1 would maybe be reasonable for Penn State….or another team who’s only chance is a conference tourney auto-bid.
So what is a fair odd that you suggest?
Again, my 100:1 is especially tailored for the Nostradamus who has been self-proclaimed that he says ALL YEAR LONG that Purdue is an NIT team.
(Mind you, as I have repeatedly said here that if my life were to depend on it, I’d think we are closer to NIT than NCAA)
Where does this come from?
It seems rather high. I’ll take the other side.
This is a discussion board. Not a street-ball court.
Can’t you just agree to disagree at the time and look back later to see who was right? Take satisfaction from being right instead of trying to bet everyone off? Do you really need the validation of some random bet to feel vindicated?
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 5, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
no
It must be settled with an online bet by 2 people who will never meet in person!!
by Bloomington.Boiler on Feb 6, 2012 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
I knew the "sky is falling" comment would be called out today
and if anyone hasn’t noticed, its fallen right on our fucking faces!!!
cpig fights negativity till the end, which I kinda admire……but geeeez, get pissed for once!
LOL, I've been wondering where you've been hiding ;-)
BTW, I disagree that I fight negativity. You don’t need to be a half-full fan like TMill (actually, he is more like 3/4 full when it is 1/4), and frankly sometimes I am sick of them too. You can also be critical to the players (e.g. TJ’s FT), and I admire constructive criticism.
I think you know me by now. Everyone is entitled to his opinion – I respect that. I’d just appreciate if someone has the guts to back up their words, like u did. Differing opinion is fine. Even negative opinion about the team is fine. Back it up. I could be very wrong for crying out loud. At this point, frankly, we are probably closer to NIT than NCAA.
hey dude!!
I’ve been sooo busy with fam and business, been reading but not on enough to post much. I will proudly admit tho, I’m fucking pissed right now. The lower expectation comments are classic Purdue bullshit. No, I didnt expect much of this team since day 1 this year, but my opinions on why are not polpular as you know. I think we have players that have no business being on a b10 program much less starting, and a coach that I cannot figure out at all.
You’ll love this, I’m pondering a double or nothing on the NCAA or NIT bid, you up for it???
by Boilerhoosier91 on Feb 5, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
What business are u in?
I’m fucking pissed right now.
Get in line, me too.
I’m pondering a double or nothing on the NCAA or NIT bid, you up for it???
That’s an interesting proposition actually, but which side are you on? I have said on this page more than once that if my life depends on it, I honestly think we are closer to NIT than NCAA. It sounds like you are having the same opinion though.
I think that’s the part that you misunderstood me. You think I put the blinders on and attack all things negative. Hell no. If someone comes in and be a rah-rah cheerleader and say we’ll beat O$U for sure otherwise we are not a “real fan”, I’ll bet him right away. I only have issues with folks who have an overwhelmingly strong opinion one way or the other that is beyond reason, make some uber claim but refuse to back it up. Otherwise, I respect differing opinion, and as I always say, I may disagree with that person, but I’d defend his right to state his opinion.
Self employed, two locations of business
but I think I’ll keep my profession to myself for now haha…gotta go to SB party, catch you later
by Boilerhoosier91 on Feb 5, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think anyone is being wrong here
There are positive and negative things with this team, and the positive things are talked about more after the wins and the negative things are talked about after the loses. Why can’t someone say Hummel is not a lead guy? It’s true. Why can’t people criticize Painter when he deserves it? On the other hand, people are right in saying if we go 9-9 in the Big 10 we deserve to get in and we still definitely COULD do that. If you are a positive person, don’t get mad at someone for pointing out the things you don’t want to hear, and negative people vise versa.
A well reasoned post.
A rarity lately.
Football recruiting guy for Hammer and Rails
Lead blogger for 5 other sites.
Follow the Twitter for all the details
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Riles23
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Big10RantPurdue
by HawkeyeBoiler on Feb 5, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
This.
I don’t care if people think that we are going to win all of our last 8 games.
I’m just sick of being called out as “not a true fan” because I have a different opinion.
Just curious, who called YOU "not a true fan"?
I can’t remember how many times I said I appreciate differing opinion. Having the same opinion leads to group think, and I never learn from someone who shares the same opinion as me. In fact, I admire those folks who have the guts to back their words and put money where their mouth is. Those guys are fun to be around, and we’ll have our passionate debate and enjoy watching the game together.
There are numerous people who have said that to various people on these boards. I don't think he was talking about you specifically.
I’m not going to start a pissing contest by naming names of those who’ve done it, but I will point out two of the 3 most recent FanPosts are questioning people’s fandom, or outright attacking it.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 5, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
No one is being wrong; everyone is entitled to his opinion
IMHO, it’s even better if people can back up their opinion with a friendly, gentleman bet. After all, if we believe so passionately what we believe in…
amen!
that’s exactly what i am saying. i can’t believe i am taking crap for being “overly optimistic” by saying we can win 4 more games. willit be hard? absolutely! It is far from impossible, however. that’s all i am saying. there is no reason whatesoever to go all, Lit’s hopeless. utterly hopless, it’s Painter’s fault and he should not only be fired, but dragged through the streets behind a garbage truck" some are thinking.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
by BoilerTMill on Feb 5, 2012 2:18 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
No one has said that
You have a tendency to put words in people’s mouths, and it’s very frustrating when trying to have a discussion
people have called for Painter's head both here and on Twitter.
many using the argument of, “he got the massive extension despite never making a Final Four and his recruiting misses.”
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
by BoilerTMill on Feb 5, 2012 2:39 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
"People"? Or credible, reasonable people?
Yes, there are those who don’t like Painter. But referencing them all the time when the person you’re responding to hasn’t said that, but has made some other valid point, is disingenuous at best. Sure, call out the idiot who wants him fired. But don’t respond to something like “Painter’s offense isn’t working this year” with a comment about people wanting him fired. It’s a guilt by association fallacy.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 5, 2012 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Just going by my experience
As the most visible at the site, I deal with it all.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
It is simply not fair
to expect a player to carry a Big Ten team when that team has only one player averaging double figures. Yeah, as for now, we are the only team in Big Ten that has only one player who averages more than 10 points per game. I do believe LewJack and Ryne can return to 10+ points/game before long, especially Lew, but…you get the idea.
It is also not realistic to expect a player to just come back and carry a team when the player had not played or practiced for more than 18 months, had never played or practiced with any of the underclassmen before this season, and still cannot practice with the team everyday. You can even argue that LewJack is the only player that Hummel had ever played with for any significant amount of minutes.
With that being said, I still think Hummel is at least capable of playing better than what we are seeing right now. For the past few weeks we’ve seen him come from missing open jump shots, to missing lay-ups and missing put backs. I understand that he may not be getting enough lift from his legs, but at this point part of his struggles has to be mental. I miss the Robbie Hummel we saw against Iona. Hopefully he can start to play with that kind of confidence again, although with the way we are playing right now, pressure will only continue to mount.
I’m simply saying this season is a reality check to his purdue legacy that hurts a lot and everyone should see that.
Face it, everyone thought RH was going to ride in this year and carry us to the Dance. Reality hurts. The poor kid can’t even practice. It’s painful to watch.
This season is NOT a reality check to RH’s Purdue legacy. If it is the reality check of anything, it is the reality check of people’s expectations. RH is a player coming back from 2 knee injuries. If people thought he was Superman coming to West Lafayette, it is their problem, not his.
People put him on a pedestal, and when they realize he is a human being, they complain and wish he had not come back because they care so much about their precious memories of him. Robbie Hummel at least deserves better than that.
He is used to play with two all-americans
Those two helped carry the load offensively and defensively. He does not have that any more, and it shows in both the team’s terrible offense and their horrid defense. I believe that the rest of the players could step up and Purdue goes on a run… But I don’t that will actually happen. We are nearing the end of the season and most of the players still have the “stand around and let the big three do all the work” offense and defense. The problem is, only 1/3 of the 07 class is left and he is not nearly the shot creator nor the perimeter/interior defender that Moore and JJ were.
Minor detail, if I were u I'd actually say 1/4 to make the point
only 1/3 of the 07 class is left
You're putting words in his mouth.
…they complain and wish he had not come back because they care so much about their precious memories of him. Robbie Hummel at least deserves better than that.
He never asked for Robbie to stop playing. He never attacked him. He was just pointing out how painful it is to see him struggle.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 5, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Uh...this is what he said in another thread
As awful as it sounds, I kinda wish Robbie didnt play the rest of the year
Watching him limp around on 3/4 a good leg is just painful. This isnt the robbie hummel i want to remember.
And IIRC I’ve seen similar posts in the Northwestern or Michigan game thread (not by him, though).
I guess we can all agree that it is painful to see Hummel struggle. I felt so bad during the Wisconsin game and almost hoped Painter had benched him. Then as we left Mackey my friend said: “We all feel bad for him, but just imagine how he must be feeling.”
All am saying is that Hummel has earned the right to play if Painter decides to play him. What we want to remember does not really matter.
"Kinda wish" != "Robbie get off the floor!"
It hurts to watch, ergo part of him doesn’t want to see it. Which is different that saying Robbie SHOULD be benched.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 5, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
If I say "I kinda wish Dreymond Green didn't play the rest of the year"
I am sure MSU fan will call me out just like we did to the guy who called Robbie to tear his ACL…even though it just pains me to watch player in pain and that’s what I saw in Green.
Not having seen Green post-injury...
I would say that it’s different for two reasons.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 5, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Post fail....
1, Green is not on your team, so, you don’t get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to intentions.
2, There is a kind of unique emotional attachment to Robbie that isn’t there with Green and you. Maybe it is with MSU fans, I wouldn’t know. But saying you want to remember a beloved player at his best instead of as a shell of himself isn’t attacking the player.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 5, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
I am sure HB doesn't mean ill-will to Robbie
But Robbie wasn’t as bad as LewJack IMO. There is no reason to single out Robbie. LewJack has a lot more crashes on the floor after driving lay-ups than Robbie. LewJack couldn’t even sit on the bench and you can see him grimace in so many games. Now it’s fair and very much reasonable that some of the fans question whether it is better to shut down LewJack for a couple of games so that HE CAN HEAL, but you don’t hear anyone saying, “Oh I kinda wish LewJack didn’t play for the rest of the year.”
And also, HB is a contributing author to this site, just like you. If he is just a random idiotic fan who needs to vent I couldn’t care less. But he is supposed to be a lot more knowledgeable and I expect more from him. It’s like, it’s one thing if an asst coach privately believes this is an NIT team, it’s another for him to make a front page article out of it. A random fan in the stand may say the same thing and there is no controversy; but not a person associated with the team.
I don't see the problem with him presenting his analysis of the team.
If that analysis says they are an NIT team, then so be it. I don’t see him singling out Robbie, really, any more than anyone expecting 18 and 8 from him is. And LewJack is, IMO not nearly the shadow of himself that Robbie is. I’m not belittling his pain, but he still shows that burst, he just struggles to sustain it. Robbie just doesn’t look himself this year.
I think some people are being a little too sensitive about the “wish he wouldn’t play” comment. I think we all agree that watching Robbie struggle is awful. I’m willing to make the not-unreasonable assumption that that was all HB was attempting to express.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 5, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
When he is actually giving analysis, I wrote that I actually (mostly) agree with him
See HB’s comment below “maybe saying since Xavier is the frustration boiling over (no pun intended)”
But there is a difference between giving analysis and giving a front page article about his Nostradamus prophecy in saying ALL YEAR LONG that Purdue is a NIT team, which IMO is unnecessary, and which is why I take offense for HIM as a Boiler fan. Maybe in the end we end up at NIT, but he doesn’t need to rub it in our face that he has called it all along.
Lastly, if you are willing to make the non-unreasonable assumption that HB means no ill-will (which I actually agree), why don’t you also make the same non-unreasonable assumption that all my posts mean no ill-will to anyone? If you think others are too sensitive to HB’s comments, why don’t you also think others are too sensitive to my comments as well? ;-)
I wasn't really referencing you.
Just as an example, the OP on this reply chain accused him of
… complain[ing] and wish[ing] he had not come back because they care so much about their precious memories of him. Robbie Hummel at least deserves better than that.
That seems a little harder to offer the benefit of the doubt on.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 6, 2012 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
OK I'll admit that I was being too sensitive
I said “people,” not HB in that reply. Perhaps I would not have reacted this way had it been the first time I read something like this. There was another person in the MSU game thread who said that it we don’t make the tourney, he/she almost wishes Hummel had never come back because “he is ruining my memories of him.”
I guess I just have another kind of weird emotional attachment. Having seen him come from being tentative and unable to rebound in traffic to gutting out 10 rebounds and career high 5 blocks against IU while limping around, as well as from shooting lights out in November to missing open 3s, lay-ups and put backs in recent weeks, I think as long as RH decides to shut up and deal with the struggles, I’ll watch no matter how painful it can be. Then when I read some comments here, I was surprised.
I apologize to you and to HB. I am sure HB was not attacking any player. I am sorry if I overreacted or hurt anyone’s feelings.
I am sure no one is attacking Robbie Hummel
I can’t fully agree with reason #2, though.
Whatever Hummel did prior to his 2 ACL injuries has already been done and nothing is going to change that. If you want to remember how he played in the 2 Wisconsin games in his freshman year, or how he bounced back from his back injury and led Purdue to its first Big Ten Tournament championship as a sophomore, or how good his junior season was before the Minnesota game, you can keep those memories for as long as you want to. No one is going to take them away from him or us.
I understand the emotional attachment and everything. But IMHO you can always remember the player that Hummel once was, as long as you don’t believe that a player is only as good as his last game.
We are a NIT caliber team
but we are going to make the tournament. Find me 68 teams better than us. Its to easy to make the tournament, 2nd round is the farthest we can get.
It's not 68
When you consider all the teams that get auto bids from crappy conferences. Probably somewhere closer to 50. There are 37 at large bids, and around 10-15 of the 31 auto qualifying teams will be teams that would have taken an at large.
Agreed.
You can’t miss on recruiting in this day and age. Matt Painter was off target slightly the last few years and it’s killing us.
Keady used to say recruiting is a lot like shaving, miss a day and you look like a bum.
I posted this in another thread but it seems to fit better here.
My heart has the glass half full but my head says half empty.
A lot of the frustration on this boad is due to inflated expectations. It is OK to hope your team is going to be what you want them to be, but it is kinda foolish to expect it. A lot of variables didn’t break our way this year. That’s sports. Do you really think Painter and the coaching staff isn’t doing everything they can to win each game? For the most part, aren’t the players giving solid efforts? When you realistically evaluate this team, top to bottom, the talent is in the bottom third of the B1N, IMO. If they do make the tourney, it should be viewed as a significant accomplishment. Word of warning: I’m starting to hear the same high expectations for next year’s team. It’s not fair to these kids to expect them to be better than this years after losing Hummel, Smith and Lewjack. Again, it’s OK to hope, just don’t get so pissed if it doesn’t happen.
by Hummel's figurines on Feb 5, 2012 1:44 PM EST reply actions
True
I started a thread a little over a week ago saying that I hope we start all 4 freshman by the end of the year. I like the “fit” of the four guys we have. If they start from day 1 (which they won’t) I think by the time they are upperclassmen they will be a top 15 team because of the experience, size, and ability to defend.
by OldSchoolStyle on Feb 5, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
I like our players shouldn't need to play out of position next year
I agree not to put too much expectation on next year’s players though. It’s ridiculous to assume they will just walk in and save the program while losing Robbie, Ryne and LewJack. I expect a lot of growing pain and we might not in the upper echelon until 2013/14.
I agree with you
the three best players are gone from this team. Theoretically if the freshman come in and fill their shoes then we still have the same team next year as this. So i believe you are right, next year will be similar as this year, with the optimism that the freshman will get better and the 2013 class is coming in. Hopefully a top 20 2014 or 2015 recruit will come into the fold..
There is a major difference between this year and next year.
Next year we will have a 7 foot post-player that actually has post moves. That is something this team is really missing above all else. Passing it to Carrol is useless because he has no turn around jumper, no hook shot, etc.
Another difference
Is that I will be a lot happier next year even if we have the same record as we do now because hopefully we will see the potential in the freshman. This year, you don’t see anyone who is going to be our next star or who is going to take the game over when needed. The baby boilers didnt win all their games the first year, but everyone got excited about their potential. This year, our best players will be graduating and they are currently limping to the finish line due to injuries, along with the fact that we dont have enough talent surrounding them.
If we are honest... didn't we see this coming
As many of you I was optimistic (cautiously) about the success of our team this year. However if we look back to last year I think there were hints of what possibly could happen if this team did not gel. Case in point, JJ covered up a lot of mistakes on the defensive end with his shot blocking and mere presence. Last year you saw many of the breakdowns we have seen the year. Specifically, when to switch and when not to, when to help and when to stay at home. I think our guys last year knew they had someone to bail them out in JJ if they got beat or made a mistake. This year they do not have that luxury hence the breakdowns are now turned into points for the opposition.
You can say the same on the offensive end. JJ and or Smooge would be there to bail them out. Their shooting percentage is down because they don’t have the extra split second to set, square up and release. When they do get open they are so surprised that I think they try to steer the ball instead of just releasing it in rhythm. I also think they are so consumed with not turning the ball over that their offense becomes very safe and predictable. Its great to average single digit turnovers but sometimes you have to take some chances and be aggressive.
All of this being said, this team is down but not out. They play hard but they are pressing. If CMP can get them to relax a little, use their basketball instincts a little more and trust each other especially on defense, wins will come. We have seen what this team is capable of in spurts. We just need to see it for an entire game. and then another game and another……..
by oldgoldandblack82 on Feb 5, 2012 2:34 PM EST reply actions
I went into the archives and found a post of mine from 3/21/11.
Granted, I was still a little worked up coming immediately after the loss to VCU, but the gist of the comments refer to future expectations. Some of us saw this coming:
I’m not going to harp on this because at this point it is spilt milk but, for 4 years after 2007, CMP simply did not recruit at the level necessary to keep this a top 20 program. We will start to feel the effects of that next year and it will get worse the following year. Here’s what your pinning your hopes on: Robbie-coming off two straight ACLs he’s supposed to walk on the floor and average 16/8. Right. Carroll-maybe by his senior year, at best a back up PF. Barlow-Loose canon on and off the floor, does more harm than good. Smith-the definition of a streak shooter. Nice compliment at times but you can’t count on him. T Johnson-I don’t see where all the love comes from. CMP’s only top 50 recruit in four years, I expected much more that 5 ppg and 35% shooting. If you want I can list all the freshman in the B10 outperforming him, but I warn you, it’s a long list. Lewjack-probably our best known entity coming into next year. That alone should tell you all you need to know. Bade/Marcuis- not now or ever will be D1 players. Byrd- give him somewhat of a pass cuz he’s playing out of position but generally inconsistent and didn’t take a significant step from FR to So. year. AJ/Lawson/Hale- what can you really count on here? Given the performance of our FR classes since 2007, realistically, not much. Hart- no comment. Bottom line, there’s just not much talent here guys. Having said all this, we could out perform expectations because of one constant, Matt Painter. Despite yesterdays debacle, I still believe he is one of the brightest coaches in the college game. He will get everything there is to give out of the next few years teams. And I do agree that 2013 or 2014 we will be dangerous again as the talent starts to equal the instruction again. I just hope he can keep the pipeline going this time. I still believe someday it’ll happen, but I’m not delusional enough to think it’s going be the next couple years. .
by Hummel's figurines on Feb 5, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly!!! You hit it spot on!!!
this team is down but not out. They play hard but they are pressing. If CMP can get them to relax a little, use their basketball instincts a little more and trust each other especially on defense, wins will come.
THIS
However, IIRC CMP said something like this as early as after the Xavier game. It’s been two months since then and things have not become better. The more we lose, the more difficult to get anyone to relax.
That's true
And at this point, I can only hope CMP can justify his $2.3M with some coaching magic to get the guys to relax and play the kind of bball that we can play (e.g. 1st half Xavier). Maybe it’ll come next week; maybe it won’t for the rest of the season. My take is that things are rarely as good as they seem, or as bad as they seem.
CMP
Looking back he was really going to leave. We are lucky he stayed. Maybe we can fight our way to a tourney bid. But let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do next year. That’s why he redshirted Donnie he knew we were going to struggle
by boilerrx on Feb 5, 2012 2:42 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
I call BS that Robbie can't be a featured player
He was the featured player in 2009-2010. As someone else said, he dropped 30 on tOSU. He was the #1 guy on that team. As soon as he went out, the offense utterly collapsed going into the NCAA tournament. What has happened is that his injury has simply changed his game and destroyed his confidence. Confidence is the #1 thing that our team is lacking. There is really no other way to explain how guys with good shooting strokes consistently fail to shoot 60% free throws. That, and we have no leader, no Draymond Green to pick this team up. Instead of saying, “it was a tough game; we’ll pick it up next week” we have guys complaining about student sections and long drives. This team has had a lot of opportunities to do soul searching, but it doesn’t seem like anyone is capable of picking everyone up.
Crossroads of the Interwebz - my blog
He was NOT the number one guy.
How is it our own fans don’t realize that Smooge was the major offensive threat the first three years? Seriously, E’twaun was the leading scorer and definitely the best in the clutch that year. Hummel was important, yes, but he was not more important than E’twaun. I would actually go so far as to say he would have done worse if Smooge or JJ got injured and not Robbie.
Points taken
I’d conjecture we would have done better if it was Smooge getting injured though, just b/c we are so thin in our front court. I mean, we have to ask a 6’3 Kramer to guard the opposing team’s 6’9 PF.
Possibly
But we didn’t have any other SG close to the level of Smooge in terms of creating shots. Smooge was also a very underrated defender.
True
It’s a close call, but I still give the edge to Hummel b/c Keaton Grant can better replace Smooge than Hummel. The thing is, at SG, we can get some crazy games like John Hart at Illinois and doesn’t lose too much, but at PF, we can’t expect Bade to be anywhere close to Hummel.
Just wrong
What happened to Smooge when Robbie went down? He didn’t do anything the rest of the season, only had one game over 40% shooting, and only after re-tooling everything in the off-season did he get going again. Robbie was the centerpiece of everything that season up until he went down. Sure, he didn’t score as much, but he rebounded a ton and for several games he took on the role of featured scorer.
It’s amazing how quickly people forget what a player Robbie was before the injury. He would never miss open threes like he’s had lately; the notion that he needs someone else to be the main scorer for him to play well is BS that only serves to cover up the fact that he’s not the same player as he was back then.
Crossroads of the Interwebz - my blog
Issues..........
I don’t think it’s terrible to have a team of role players…..especially after watching Gene Keady’s ICONs last night. That is the definition of Purdue basketball. We don’t get the big time recruits, period. We have to take what we have, mold it, and let them win as a team. Unfortunately this year (AS EXPECTED) the combination of being young, injured, and inexplicable at thime we have dropped too many games. At the same time we have played up to our potential (@ X, Illinois, Minne, Butler 1st half…..) This team can ABSOLUTEY go to the dance and make damage IF we decide to play as a team, hustle, and make free throws. We absolutely have the potential to just quit and go to the NIT also. BUT it pisses me off when we are just PRE DESTINED to the NIT. I have no problem with expectations and possibiliteis, but DO NOT say its not possible.
btw
you won’t be confirmed right about the NIT thing until, you know, the fucking season is over and we’re playing in the NIT tournament. So let’s not get too proud of ourselves here.
in your opinion, we may look like a NIT team. and that’s fine (i don’t view optimism as a litmus test for “true” fandom), except your argument is supported so poorly that it’s hard to take you seriously (which is disappointing, as i typically enjoy your posts). everyone is overly emotional; it was a tough loss no doubt. but the season’s not over; we have at least nine games left (8 + B1G tourney). all i’m saying is, we can talk about the problems with the team (poor outside shooting, bad rebounding, virtually no post presence) but i have yet to hear a compelling argument yet for why we should view the NIT as our highest aspiration.
frankly, i think we all would probably do well to step away from the computer and go do something else today.
http://therailroadtie.com/
Boiler up!
But what else am I going to do?
There is nothing on TV! It’s just a boring Sunday with boring television!
Well, to Hawkeye Boiler, we were NIT since Xavier and he's been calling it all along
I generally like HB. After all, he’s in Iowa and has no biz to be a Boiler fan and yet he is, so I naturally like him. And truthfully, the road to NCAA is tough at this point, I agree and I acknowledge that. But to make a front page article to declare his prophecy all year long that we are destined to NIT when there are at least 9 more games to play just seem a bit disappointing to any fan. I wouldn’t make it such a big deal if not for HB’s status as a contributing author and that I generally respect him. (If it’s just some random idiot making a fan shot venting his frustration I couldn’t care less)
i think we all would probably do well to step away from the computer and go do something else today
But the Super Bowl is not starting for another 100 mins or so…
maybe saying since Xavier is the frustration boiling over (no pun intended)
But I dont see anything that makes a Tourney team.
We are a 3 point shooting team that doesnt shoot them extremely well. We have exactly 2.5 players that can get into the paint when they want. We lack a true post presence and our once vaunted defense looks average this year.
Our two best players are so beat up that they can’t practice. Optimists pointing to the four or five HALVES of basketball this year that we looked good need to see thats the exception, not the rule. We’ve had numerous GAMES were we look like crap.
It just doesnt look like a tourney team. Doesnt have that feeling.
Football recruiting guy for Hammer and Rails
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by HawkeyeBoiler on Feb 5, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
I can agree with this post
Actually I thought after the Alabama game that things could get ugly for this team. But at that time I believed we had enough time to make progress and piece things together.
Frankly, I have no problem with losing to better teams as long as we play like we know how to play. What has really troubled me is that somehow this team seems to have regressed. Or maybe I am just seeing things that are not there.
We’ve been saying that this Purdue team can beat anyone and lose to anyone, but right now we are seeing the “bad” Purdue team more often.
It is going to be difficult, but I still believe we have a chance to be a Tourney team. We have to at least put together something, though. And time is running out.
I agree with what you said about Robbie Hummel
And maybe someone mentioned it earlier, but I really can’t sit down and read 90+ comments at once.
If I remember correctly from the Illinois game on New Years Eve, Purdue was up by maybe 3 points at most, maybe even down, Hummel went to the bench, but then we just went crazy on Illinois and pretty soon the lead was up to double digits and it never went any lower, then Hummel came back in and we were able to finish the Illini.
Basically, I know this team can do well without Robbie Hummel, and we don’t need to be dependent on him. We just need to stop taking as many jump shots and drive into the lane. We have been too dependent on Lew Jack, (and does anyone else find irony that the one player who consistently drives into the lane is the smallest player on the court?!), and when he gets shut down, like last night, Purdue freezes. I am pretty sure 95%, if not 100%, of the shots made in the 1st half were all points in the paint.
I did the math last night, Purdue is making 32% of their shots from the 3-point range in the last 8 games (starting from the collapse in State College), including the game at Minnesota when they went 10-15. This team has to stop shooting the 3 like T-Mill says game in and game out. Drive to the basket, get the shot, or at least draw a foul and learn to make a damn free throw.
Volleyball Correspondent for Hammer and Rails
BTFU or GTFO
Also, stop swatting and start rebounding
Leave the swatting to the volleyball team.
Volleyball Correspondent for Hammer and Rails
BTFU or GTFO
Purdue was up by 11
when Hummel went to the bench. We did went crazy for the next 4-5 minutes, though, and was up by 27 at one point. That also coincide with Leonard not in the game until we were up by 23.
I agree that we don’t need to be dependent on Robbie Hummel, or at least the players (especially Hummel himself) should not think we have to rely on Hummel to carry all the load. If we just look at the Illinois game, though, the same can be said about LewJack.
On the other hand, we can look at other games where we would have lost had Hummel or LewJack not played (Iona, Temple, etc), or the Michigan game where we would not have been in the place to attempt a potential game winning shot.
I do not have problems with the right people taking open 3s, but I agree with you, we should stop taking so many long jump shots. 3s are great when they are falling; when it clearly is not our night, try something else. We have not shot well from the 3-point range since the Minnesota game, and it has been about a month.
My bad on the Illinois line
I thought it was closer. Point was, and I think you pointed it out that though Hummel and Lew Jack are vital, we can’t be dependent on them like Saturday night, but that as the Illinois game showed, we are capable of being independent from one of them if they have a bad night.
Volleyball Correspondent for Hammer and Rails
BTFU or GTFO
Haha
Hawkeye…you are getting ripped a new one not for your comments about Robbie, but instead just packing it in for the season.
I agree with you that I THINK Purdue is on the road for the NIT, but that certainly doesn’t mean that they will. A team can get hot at any point and win a couple unexpected games, and boom, you are on the right side of the bubble.
CMP Needs to tweak the rotation
Ryne is shooting terrible right now, he might need some rest. Usually at this point Matt would bench guys to give the team a little shot. Like benching Kramer and Grant. So why not give AJ and Hart some of Ryne’s minutes.
Then personally I think that Lawson and Sandi played well yesterday but the refs love Cody. I think that they need to play alot more maybe even together just to give Rob a slight breather.
Paying Painter Millions for Mediocrity. He obviously saw the future, wanted to go improve his resume, we actually gave into his demands, and now we meet what he saw on the supply end.
JMO
I mean, if he wanted to win, he would have went to Mizzou. Any coach could have seen that last year, but he picked $$. Maybe Keady and Tiller gave him some advice on how to ride the wave.
Wow
People…Seriously…Remember like 2 months ago when Tom Coughlin was about to lose his job…Now he is holding the Lombardi trophy.
Name me a coach in any sport ever who wins every single year no matter what happens forever. The only ones even close would be the Coach K type, and Duke hasn’t even been impressive this year.
Jamie Dixon is widely considered one of the best coaches in the nation at Pitt and his team started 0-7 in the Big East.
I could go on and on… How about Izzo last season, it happens to everyone.
No one ever said it would be easy to bring a national championship to Purdue, and it won’t be. We have to be patient, support our team, and support the best man to lead us there, Coach Matt Painter.
If you don’t want to do that you can GTFO and celebrate the “Movement” with that clapping moron and the rest of the state.
He would have got paid roughly the same at mizzou
He could have had both at missouri. He would never have stayed at Purdue if he didn’t think he could win. He played for Purdue, he knows what winning something would mean to our fan base and to the university. Your way off on this.
Painter is making $2.3M per year.
I’m a JCP member and we got lambasted by Burke and Nancy Cross for not ponying up enough donations at the time Missouri was after him and they basically said we were all cheap, all this while CMP was holding the university hostage for a big raise in a down economy when we are all suffering and then he tried to claim the high ground by saying he was doing it on behalf of his underpaid assistant coaches which any thinking person knows is bullshit. I don’t know about you all but I don’t make $2.3M per year, hell I’ve never even made 10% of that but I give what I can to my alma mater every month. Painter got his raise and I am happy he did because no one wanted him to stay more than I did but I want to see progress, not just from year to year, but from game to game as the season progresses and that we are not seeing. I have absolutely ZERO problem with someone who is making a couple of million dollars a years having their feet held to the fire.
by GeorgiaBoiler on Feb 6, 2012 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
So you also called Izzo a bad coach last year?
Down years happen. Sometimes the players just don’t respond to the coaching, and there’s nothing the coach can do except work on next year. MSU was a textbook example of this last year, and I don’t think anyone can seriously contend that Izzo doesn’t know what he’s doing.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 6, 2012 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
When did I call Izzo a bad coach?
Let me answer that for you. I never called Izzo a bad coach.
Down years happen. Sometimes the players just don’t respond to the coaching, and there’s nothing the coach can do except work on next year.
I expect performance for pay whether it is one of my employees or Matt Painter. I don’t expect a Big Ten title this year but I do expect to see continued improvement and progress as the season continues and that we are not seeing. You’re still in school and inexperienced with how the world works but I can guarantee that you will receive a rude awakening if you attempt that excuse in the work world.
by GeorgiaBoiler on Feb 6, 2012 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
So you concede Izzo is a good coach who had a down year last year?
Ergo, down years happen even to good coaches? Which would imply that coaches are not always at fault when players fail to perform?
And don’t talk down to me. I know damn well how the world works. You can blow me off with that, but it doesn’t change the fact that I’m right, and it just makes you look like a condescending jerk.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 6, 2012 4:10 AM EST up reply actions
You don't know yet what you don't know.
by GeorgiaBoiler on Feb 6, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
And I have no idea what he does know about what the other guy knows about what the one guy doesn't know about the other guy's sister who knew about that one thing that happened last Tuesday.
What’s the point of this again? Please see my fan post from today. That is all.
Chemsitry...
This probably isn’t a profound statement (and I don’t post on here enough to know what everyone else has been saying), but I think the biggest problem with this team is a total lack of team chemistry, especially offensively. Yes, the fact that Robbie is in the role of “go to scorer” doesn’t help and player injuries contribute to the overall problem, but basically the team does not play as a team. If we are winning it’s because, a.) one or more of our players is/are shooting really well from outside OR b.) one of our guards (usually LJ) is penetrating well and creating his own shot. We have absolutely NO inside/outside game, ball movement/reversals, or guys playing off one another. It is completely disjointed and an individual effort, thus the inconsistency we have seen arises because our players are not skilled enough to shoot 45+% outside jumpshots/threes night in and night out. The players who we expect the most out of (Rob and LJ) can’t practice on a regular basis, which exacerbates the lack of chemistry even more.
Let's be realistic by using what's left on our schedule:
What would the team need to do in order to be in the NCAA tourney?
[assuming they don’t get in by winning the B1G tourney?]
I would say win out the rest of the year EXCEPT O$U, and get to the B1G tourney game. Without wins over MSU, UM & IU, I don’t see enough quality wins to get us in. With that being said, we would have to start playing like the team that killed ILL in order for this to happen. Unfortunately, that is going to be tough, so if we lose one game other than O$U, I would guess our only chance of getting in would be winning the B1G tourney.
Dude....68 teams. 68. A 20-win Big Ten team is not getting left out of the Dance.
If we split the remaining games and pick up a win in the BTT, we’re in.
Note that I’m not expecting that to happen anyway, but saying we need to go 10-1 with wins over 2-4 ranked teams is absurd.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 6, 2012 4:14 AM EST up reply actions
there are not 68 in reality
When you account for all the at large bids. More like 50 that will be chosen. We are ranked around 64 RPI before the ui loss. Problem is we don’t have many quality wins. Someone stated we are the only team to have not beaten a ranked team this year. We aren’t going to get in by beating all of the
lower ranked big ten teams and going 10-10 B1G with no major non-conf wins.
by TheBox on Feb 6, 2012 7:36 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Get a win over MSU, or @Michigan, or @IU
and as long as we don’t lose to PSU or Nebraska or Northwestern at home and can win a game in the BTT, we are going to be fine.
I would even guess we are going to be fine if we win @Illinois and lose all the MSU, Michigan and IU games.
With the way we’ve been playing I do not feel safe at all, but we definitely have a chance. Who knows. Maybe we’ll get a W tomorrow and then lose one of the easier home games. There are still 8 games left in the regular season. A lot of things can happen.
That's overly pessimistic
If they win 4 more games, they are in.
The question to me is does 3 games do it…with those 3 games being the home games against the bottom third of the league? That puts them at 9-9 in conference, which would normally get you in. The problem is there are really no quality wins on there, if that’s how it ends up. The best win would be @ Minny…which is a bubble team itself and the Temple win.
Wins
I actually think we will get in, but I think we will win 2, yes TWO games on the road. Northwestern is going to get us at home. I think we pick off Ohio State and Michigan. Call me crazy….yeah go ahead.
Or @Illinois and @IU
No, I would not call you crazy, although I would hate to lose to Northwestern at home. If anything is crazy, this team is crazy.
On a lighter note, this team is a mystery. We either blew leads on the road (@ Xavier, Butler) or almost let the W slip away (@NW) when the Paint Crew traveled, and we lost at home when the Paint Crew camped (Wisconsin, Michigan, IU). Maybe it would help if the Paint Crew can boo them the next time we play at home. (jk)
you're crazy
Those are both almost sure losses….particularly OSU. Have you seen what they have been doing to people at home?
Hatred: Rejuvinated
Currently having to deal with all the IU fans in the office today…
by Bloomington.Boiler on Feb 6, 2012 8:56 AM EST reply actions
Team of contradictions
Painter should have been playing for next year the entire year, acknowdging that this is a rebuilding year, and gotten Hale, Lawson, Marcuis, Carrol, AJ, TJ, Byrd, and Barlow acclimated as team-leaders….. But he understandably wanted to squeeze the most out of this season for Robbie, and so played too many hurt players too much and too early. It didn’t work out against X and Butler, and now we’re really paying for it.
Funny thing is, if Painter had just let Robbie and Lew rest for much of the non-conference, we would have dropped maybe 5 games instead of 3, but would have probably made a better run here in the B10 and made the tourney.
We also have lots of talent, but because of size problems none of it has developed in the proper way. When you play out of position you don’t develop those traditional skills as much because you’re trying to find tricks to make up for size differentials. So, oddly, what should be points (TJ, Barlow) don’t see the floor and can’t shoot free-throws, what should be 2 guards (TJ and AJ) that don’t shoot all that well, what should be 3s (Byrd and Hummel) that don’t drive the ball, what should be 4s (Lawson, Carrol, and Marcuis) that can’t move or set high ball screens. It’s a weird team and Painter didn’t figure out how to make the pieces work in a way that would develop player’s natural abilities.
I wish we had been working the entire season toward making the starting lineup be Barlow, TJ, Byrd, Hummel, and Marcuis (physically our best looking lineup, if only they learned to work together and get confident), but our personel didn’t make that a realistic or smart looking game-plan. How do you sit Lewjack or Smith early in the season with all they bring (despite their already met ceiling)? How do you just keep playing Marcuis 20-30 min a game in the hopes he puts it together?
Bottom line, the real problem is that Painter had a very tiny window to make this thing work because we have the contradiction of a bunch of talented parts, but none of which fit together very well. That’s why I think next year is going to actually be much better than this year. Sure we won’t expect as much, but I think Barlow and Byrd will settle nicely into their roles as the starting point and the starting 3 guard, we’ll have 4s playing in their position (Lawson / Carrol / Hale), 2 servicable 5s (Marcuis and Hammons), and the rest of the pieces will be able to play loose.
It’s the only way I can get happy:
1: Barlow (R Johnson)
2: TJ (AJ)
3: Byrd (Davis / Hale)
4: Lawson (Carrol / Simpson)
5: Hammons (Marcuis)
is Lawson ok?
After his thunderdunk he didn’t see anymore of the game. Is he hurt? Injury report?!
by Bloomington.Boiler on Feb 6, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Saw on twitter during the game that it was being looked at as a hyperextended knee.
Haven’t seen anything on it since.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 6, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
High Point
The writing was on the wall going all the way back to that game. A TERRIBLE team, at home, and Purdue almost lost….I recall thinking at the time that the team had serious flaws….and basically just wasn’t very good. They had some good spurts when 3s were dropping and they could maintain at a high level on the defensive end….but really unable to produce anything consistently.
I compare it to IU…a team that on paper isn’t that much more talented than Purdue. They’ve had a couple hiccups with Minnesota (who is playing pretty good now) and @ Nebraska, but other than that they’ve won all the games they ‘should’ have won, and done it fairly handidly, as well as pulling out a couple of games they typically would have no business winning. They are also a team that seems to rely a lot more on their younger players rather than their upperclassmen- I saw a stat that something like 59 of their points were scored by freshman and sophmores on Saturday. Not sure what to make of that, other than I’m afraid they could be scary good in the next couple of years, while Purdue is going to be back into catch-up mode just trying to get the next wave of talent B1G ready.
not so doom and gloom for the future
You hinted at why in your own assessment of IU. They started putting out a physically complete team; that’s why they got better so drastically. We have just as much if not more pure talent as they do this year, but the parts don’t fit. In light of the failure to recruit a servicable big, Painter had a dilemma this year:
1. Play people in their position from the get-go even if they aren’t the most talented 5 guys, and hope that they round out by mid-season due to in-game experience (the highest risk with the most possible reward).
2. Try 1 sometimes but when the going is tough put the best 5 on the court even though they are out of position. (lower risk, but lower possible reward; it’s unlikely those that need work to make us a more physically complete team make the necessary progress when being pulled at the first sign of trouble)
3. Play the best 5 the most minutes and see if we can win with some small-ball.
He chose 2, and now seems forced to move more to 3. I wish he had chosen 1 from the start. Can’t go there now, though.
Next year we won’t have this dilemma, and I think that means a team that can develop cohesively and utilize its talent to the fullest. We’ll be right there with IU. Byrd, Barlow, TJ, and AJ are just as good as the wings IU’s playing now, and our recruits stack up nicely against there’s.
The big question
will be Hammons and how he comes along. Big men typically take at LEAST one year of play before they can offer much at this level. Players like Sullinger and Zeller are the exception, not the rule. Look at Leonard @ Illinois. He is solid for them this year, but he gave them nothing as a freshman.
I do think its very likely that Purdue will be a worse team next year, but I think they would benefit by playing the younger, most talented players from the get-go, even if that means losing a lot more games next year….rather than giving a lot of minutes to players who aren’t the future.
Funny thing is
People who WERE the future suddenly becomes not part of the future as the team starts struggling. So who else to play when that happens?
see my post above
Painter missed big-time in recruiting not at a talent level, but at a personel level. Injuries are also a factor. Just too many of those who were supposed to be the future playing out of position and not developing. To me the biggest knock on Painter is that he chooses too early in each season to stop developing players and go with those who can give him the best chance to win the present game, even if it means going too small or playing too many one-dimensional players.
Last year it was not sticking more with at least one of the Hansons for the entire pre-conference; this year it’s been not sitting Lew and Rob for some of the pre-conference so that Barlow and Byrd can become leaders and consistent scorers and Lew and Rob could be healthy.
It’s a hard critique to make, though, because it is a really hard and risky call to make.
I have no doubt Byrd and Barlow can be good next year, mostly because they will be on a physically complete basketball team that will allow them to play to their strengths – get open shots, drive open lanes, play D on players of their size, etc. Same goes for AJ, TJ, Lawson, Carrol and Marcuis. It’s amazing how short the distance is between a totally disfunctional offense and a functional one. Having Hammons at the 5 or playing 2 forwards (eg Lawson and Carrol) at the same time, with Byrd at the 3, will do wonders for this team next year. I’m not saying they’ll win the B10, but I’ll be expecting a bounce-back and a trip to the NCAAs.
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