B1G players in the NBA By the #'s
by oldboiler52 on Feb 12, 2012 10:57 AM EST
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PrintOSU 6 Olden,Conley,Cook,Turner,Koufos and Mullens
Purdue 5 Miller,Cardinal,Landry,Johnson and Moore
Wisconson 4 Landry,Steisma,Harris and leuers
Msu 3 Richardson,Randolph and Brown
Indiana 3 Jeffries,White and Gordon
Michigan 2 Howard and Morris
Illinois 2 Cook and Williams
Minnisota 1 Humphries
Nw,Nebraska,Iowa,and Penn.St have none Some food for thought what happens to all these five star recruits that programs such as OSU,MSU,Illinois,and Indiana get every year ? How many of these players played all 4 years with their school ? I haven't done the research but I know the answer for Purdue all of them . Why does that matter ? What it tells me is we develope players other programs recruit players. The Purdue way works it is just harder we can't stay on top with OSU and MSU every year. During the game yesterday they said OSU had 5 Mac allstars . So before you come out and bitch about a down year think about it. OSU pays their players we all know it! Why didn't the NCAA do something about Bufford and the free car ! Props to Wisconson they do it the right way also and as much as I don't care for Crean he works at recruiting he earns his recruits I see him often at games and AAU events. This is why Myself and guy's like Jackson Brunner are so amped about the recruits they really are that good and we will win with them .We will win ! The Purdue way !
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Wow. Before we start sucking each others Popsicles about the "Purdue Way", Here is a list of...
all these five star recruits that programs such asOSU,MSU,Illinois,and Indianaget every year
2012
Gary Harris
2011
Branden Dawson
2010
Adreian Payne
2008
Delvon Roe
2004
Marquise Gray
2003
Shannon Brown
2002
Paul Davis
2000
Marcus Taylor
Zach Randolph
There are 9 players on this list. Two of them (Payne & Dawson) are still in college and one (Harris) is still in HS.
Roe retired due to injury after his 3rd year in the program but will graduate this spring.
Gray and Davis both exhausted their collegiate eligibility.
Brown, Taylor and Randolph all left early. Taylor obviously made an ill advised decision, but Brown and Randolph are still in the league.
You’ll note that of the 9 players on this list 6 of them have played in at least 1 Final Four. (and the other 3 still have the chance to do so).
So of the 6 players who no longer have any any collegiate eligibility: 3 left early, 2 stayed all 4 years (5 with a RS) and 1 retired due to injury but will graduate on time.
I think having 50% of your five-star recruits graduate on time is a decent percentage.
I’m proud of what IZZO does with the talent he secures.
by MSULaxer27 on Feb 12, 2012 12:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
to add on to the fact train in regards to Indiana
IU’s number of 5 star recruits in the last 5 years? 1. Cody Zeller. In the last 10? 4. Zeller, Gordon, White, Wright.
Gordon went early, White exhausted his eligibility and Wright left after 3 years.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
That just further proves part of his point though.
In the last 10 years IU has had 4 5-Star recruits. One is on the current roster and the other three play in the NBA. In the last 10 years Purdue has had 0 5-Star recruits and yet has somehow put 5 players in the NBA. Even YOU gotta admit it is more impressive to put 5 4-Star players in the NBA than to put 3 5-Star players in the NBA. If you really want I can dig deeper and give the % of 4-Star players Purdue puts in the NBA vs the % of 4-Star AND 5-Star players IU puts in the NBA in the last 10 years.
Yes I know part of his point was that these other school players don’t stay in college very long and I understand where you are both (JustAJ and MSULaxer) are coming from. Both IU and MSU tend to keep players in college longer than schools like aO$U and Kentucky, but you can’t deny that Purdue has a better track record than either MSU or IU at developing players over the last 10 years.
Well. It depends on what the goals of your programs are and how you measure "developing players".
you can’t deny that Purdue has a better track record than either MSU or IU at developing players over the last 10 years.
Over the past 12 years (at least the years I tracked above), today, Purdue has more players in the NBA than all but OSU. That doesn’t speak to how many players have entered the league from each school. Peterson and Bell (to name but two) entered during the years in review and were in the league up to last year. Davis also spent time in the league.
Your metric is flawed as a judge of “player development”. You could pick any day across the past 12 years and the number of players from each school would probably vary widely.
So if you view the coach (or program’s) goal as to put as many players into the NBA as possible (by this narrow criteria – players in the league- TODAY) then I guess you might say that Purdue “has a better track record”…but what if we look at how many players were drafted or played a game in the league over the same period?
Per NBA reference from 2000-2012:
Purdue University 4 (the above mentioned 5 minus Miller – he entered in ’99) 32 all-time
MSU 9 37 all-time
OSU 9 41 all-time
UW 5 21 all-time
UM 6 40 all-time
Iowa 5 29 all-time
Illini 8 39 all-time
IU 6 53 all-time
NU 1 14 all-time
Minn 4 41 all-time
PSU 2 10 all-time
http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.cgi?college=purdue
http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.cgi?college=michiganst
By this set of data, Purdue is only better than PSU and NU at putting players in the NBA and the same as Minnesota. What’s interesting about that subset is that Purdue is the only one in that grouping to have won a B1G title during the span we are evaluating (NU- 1931, MInn – 1982, PSU never). Does that suggest that Purdue is squandering it’s accumulated talent?
I’m going to change it up a little though, I don’t believe putting players into the NBA is a good judge of “player development” (even though MSU is successful at it). I think a better judge of player development is how far they go as a team. I think it is a coaches (and program’s) responsibility to shape his player’s into productive teammates (this bodes well for life success).
Making the NBA is such a crap shoot for all but a few players and the NBA is such a different game than the college one, that to judge a program’s worth by the few (very few) numbers of it’s players that make the professional league to be a very poor method of evaluation.
Nice job spinning
It’s interesting to note that on the Purdue board, the best spinners are the guests from MSU and IU.
(For the record, I say spinning w/o any negative connotation. My job is a Quant. I know how statistics can lie. I appreciate those who state their opinion using numbers. Some do it more skillfully, others more obvious when they try to convey only their version of the truth. In any case, I give you props for trying. It’s better than empty talks with nothing to back up)
I guess I could have done something like:
All players from each B1G school divided by all players who played an NBA game during the time period. Then sub-divided it into the number of players by their respective games and minutes. But that seems like way too much work to simply debunk the article writers premise.
Purdue put 4 guys in the NBA from 2000-2012. Cardinal has made a career as a role player. Landry contributes regularly and the other two (Moore and Johnson) are rookies.
I just felt like this was a “weak” data set to support the idea that Purdue is somehow better at developing players (For the record Moore, Johnson and Landry were all 4 stars – then again so were Teague, Crump and Martin and they haven’t seen the NBA yet).
Teague? Martin?
Well I believe David Teague tore his ACL twice while at Purdue. I doubt many GMs would consider drafting a guy with 2 ACL tears. So they have to go the undrafted/overseas route. Unfortunately Robbie is most likely going to have to try and make it that way.
Martin, as in Scott Martin? He played for Painter all of what 8 months and then went to ND. I find it hilarious that so many non-Purdue people throw him in with the ‘07 class. He gave us one year and obviously helped us, but then he quit. The ’07 class ended up being just E’twaun and JJ as Robbie basically got bumped into the ’08 class for his last 2 years.
I looked at what Rivals shows for classes and the ranking listed on their site.
If you’re going to get credit for the players you develop…shouldn’t you also factor in the players you didn’t “develop”?
Purdue signed Teague, Crump and Martin as “four star” recruits. They didn’t make it to the NBA.
that so many non-Purdue people throw him in with the ‘07 class. He gave us one year and obviously helped us, but then he quit.
Really?! So he played for a year for PU but didn’t finish at PU or in the NBA….but we shouldn’t count him because he transferred? Can you help me navigate the leaps of logic it takes to reach that conclusion?
Well
I think the original point of this post was talking about how Purdue has taken (5) 4 star recruits and after 4 years of playing AT Purdue they were able to make it to the NBA. Compared with how most of the other BIG NBA guys were 5 stars and/or either went to the NBA early.
I guess you could say Purdue didn’t develop Martin, since he was a 4 star and isn’t going to make it to the league. I would grade him more as an N/A since it was his choice to go somewhere else, presumably because he didn’t like being Hummel’s sidekick. Painter and his staff really wanted him to stay, but Martin didn’t want to play in Painters system.
So yea I guess Purdue failed to “develop” Martin. Thanks for making me understand that epic fail.
Yep
And by taking (5) 4 stars and helping them get to the league Purdue has done a great job at developing players! Wasn’t the OP pointing out that MSU has less guys in the NBA than the Boilers? And 2 of your NBA guys were 5 stars compared to 0 for Purdue.
You and him are both correct.
There were more Purdue players than MSU players in the NBA - yesterday.
I simply pointed out that it would be more fair to look at how many players each school put into the NBA over a period of time, rather than how many players are in the league currently.
MSU put 9 players in since 2000. Purdue put in 4. Of MSU’s 9 – 3 were 5 stars. That means MSU put 6 non 5 star recruits in the league, while Purdue put in 4.
MSU also had tremendous team success during this period (NC and 5 Final Fours, 4 B1G titles and a Tourney Title)…so I just don’t follow how you can say that Purdue is better at “developing players”.
Funny
And you left out Jeffries,Fife and vardel but other wise you proved my point all of your current NBA players were five star.
but Jeffries, Fife etc. weren't within the last 10 years?
so I’m not sure how I’m leaving anyone out.
Since 2002, only 14 recruited players even finished their careers at Indiana because of the Kelvin Sampson purge in 2008.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Similar to the Gene Keady - Matt Painter situation
I don’t know how many recruited players finished their career at Purdue, but there was a lot of transition during the end of the Keady and start of the Painter era. Purdue could have possibly produced more NBAers if there wasn’t that 4 year gap.
Ohh and our transition wasn’t because of NCAA sanctions.
Shouldn't transition count as well?
Lots of coaches and programs in the B1G have experienced coaching transitions in the last 12 years (well except for one)…Seems like Iowa and IU have a different coach every week, they put more players in the league than PU.
I find it interesting how much “what if, could have, should have, would have” thoughts are found here.
If we didn’t have one (seamless I might add) transition we would surely have put more players in the NBA.
If Hummel wasn’t injury prone, we would have been to multiple Final Fours and won an NCAA tournament.
All fanbases do the “what if” but where your “what ifs” take you truly astound me sometimes.
Yes It Should
That response was directed to JustAJ’s complaint about IU not having a lot of kids finish, because of the transition. All I was pointing out was that Purdue also had a rough transition during that time frame. Obviously we all want consistency, and hopefully Painter can give us 25 years (or more) just like Gene. Congrats to MSU and Izzo for not having to go through a transition during this time.
I would argue that transitions aren’t ever seemless. I mean Painter is very similar to Gene, but a lot of kids still transferred during the switch.
As for your statement. I never stated Purdue would have"surely" put more players in the NBA. I said it was possible. If you think it wasn’t possible then we disagree.
As for the Final Four with Hummel, it’s the tournament and nothing is ever guaranteed, but I think a lot of people would agree that Purdue would have had a very strong chance. I remember an article by, I think, Luke Winn of SI, after Hummel’s first ACL tear in which he ranked that injury right about there with Scott May (IU late 70’s), Jamal Maglore (UK mid 90’s) and several other crippling injuries that cost teams a chance at a title. So it was widely agreed upon by the media that Purdue was a legitimate contender. Obviously it’s not guaranteed, but how does that “what if” truly astound you?
MSU
I have always really liked MSU, and I’ve always respected Izzo. I continue to hope that Painter can put our program on par with MSU. But fans like you that come to our site and try and mock us, makes me dislike MSU a little more each time.
This is a Purdue website. You don’t NEED to come here (troll) and read our comments and laugh at how they “truly astound” you.
I never said I laughed.
It’s one thing to suggest that you should/could make a Final Four with the class of Hummel, Johnson and Moore (after all – they were (J&M) part of the class that collected the most cumulative class wins in school history).
It’s the part where it is suggested that they would have been to multiple Final Fours and won a championship that seems to be a stretch to me.
Sure
You said my comment about Purdue possibly (of course you claimed I said surely) putting more guys in the NBA if not for a coaching switch astounded you.
As for the Final Fours and assumed National Championship, I try to not really dwell on what could have been. It’s sad they never got the chance, but I’ve never said they would have done that. But I guess the thought process is, if they could have gone to the Final Four in ’10 (or won it) which they would have been ONE of the favorites then maybe JJ, Smooge and Hummel come back and try to replicate or improve on the previous year. I mean you have to admit with Hummel that team was every bit deserving of their top 3 ranking they had in ’10.
You do remember the game at Breslin in 2010, correct? Purdue jumped out to a huge lead, MSU fought back and cut it to 2, before Smooge pushed the lead back to 10 and Purdue won by double figures.
Honestly, I don't remember the 2010 game except that MSU lost.
It wasn’t the high point of our season (nor the low point either).
I never said Purdue wasn’t (or isn’t) deserving of the rankings they receive.
Because if we change the bad in our lives, we may change the good, it’s impossible to project what would have happened.
It is also entirely possible that if they went to a FF in ’10 that they may have left early for the NBA. I thought one of the reasons they gave (JJ & Moore) for coming back was that they had “unfinished” business. Go to a FF or (win a title in ’10) and that reason is gone.
Per Rivals: Lucas and Summers were 4 stars.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/michiganstate/basketball/recruiting/commitments/2007/michiganstate-30
I can’t get far enough back to check Tolbert.
btw
Landry isn’t in the NBA anymore; he plays pro ball in China.
Also, Michael Redd plays for the Suns, and he went to OSU.
Jamal Crawford plays for the Hawks, and he went to Michigan for a year.
Reggie Evans is an Iowa guy who currently plays for Clippers.
I don’t mean those corrections as disrespect, I just want to make sure we’re all on the same page here.
Comparing OSU’s pros to Purdue’s isn’t exactly comparing apples-to-apples. JJ and Smooge had to stick around for four years to become the NBA-level players that they are. For someone like Eric Gordon, sticking around for longer than a year doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
http://therailroadtie.com/
Boiler up!
Landry is most definitely still in the NBA
He dropped 17 on the Spurs a little over a week ago. He is injured at the moment and that is why he isn’t playing.
yep
Plays for NOLA Hornets
Boiler Up! Hammer Down!
by JuJuan some Moore? on Feb 12, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Carl is
not sure about Marcus
"The goal remains the same"
by TimeToPlayHard on Feb 12, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
we're not talking about carl
we’re talking about wisconsin’s landry, marcus, who plays professionally in china
http://therailroadtie.com/
Boiler up!
by therailroadtie on Feb 12, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Another way of looking at this...
And sorry this is going to look like I’m trolling (even though I’m a Purdue fan). If you look at those players out there and their respective school. Each school, besides Iowa & Purdue, is represented by a player who is starting right now. Granted Miller used to be a consistent started back in his prime, and #55 and #12 have to ride pine on the C’s bench. But the “Purdue Way” has shown that you’d be serviceable in the NBA. Glenn Robinson, probably Purdue’s one NBA superstar (you can add Mount to the list— I’m just not well rehearsed on his accomplishments), had an anonymous career with the Bucks… and only won a ring with the Spurs, as a glorified junk player like Cardinal. So unless the bball program has a change towards how Purdue football is represented in the NFL—predominantly by Drew Brees in New Orleans. The whole “Purdue Way” in basketball is just not appealing to players who have legitimate NBA aspirations of being a budding star in the league.
To your call once more we rally...
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