Preparing For The Demon Wood Of Xibalba
In Indiana, there are no alcohol sales on Sunday, so please stock up today. Tomorrow at 6pm we will have the drinking game of "How many times will we see Robbie's injury before every Purdue fan snaps?" I am betting on a minimum of six replays of the Demon Wood of Xibalba rising up to tear Robbie Hummel's knee and steal the 2010 national title from us.
Of course, if you follow me on Twitter, one reader who shall remain nameless believes that coach Painter was the reason we lost the title once Robbie got hurt because he didn't recruit an indispensible leader and 6'8" power forward with a Swiss Army knife of skills to slide in and replace him. Oh wait, he did. We call him The Traitor and he is currently finishing his career at Notre Dame because he wanted to be closer to his girlfriend.
A lot of people are very angry right now, and it is starting to border on the absurd. Half of the people who want Painter gone blame his inability to get past the Sweet 16 round of the tournament, plus his coaching deficiencies against a zone. The other half blame his recruiting fallacies and the fact that a steady pipeline of 7'2, 325 pounds of pure muscle centers that have point guard handles and range from 35 feet are kicking down the doors to Mackey Arena and come play for us. There is a third group that blames Morgan Burke for not having the facilities to get said 17-star recruits, forgetting the multi-million dollar renovation we just finished.
A summary of comments regarding the Penn State disaster from some:
- I've kicked readers off for saying we should have let Painter go last spring (which did not happen)
- Painter was the reason we couldn't get past the Sweet 16 with Hummel/Moore/Johnson (except for the fact that Hummel wasn't playing in the second Sweet 16 and if he was, I guarantee we make the Final Four at minimum).
- We haven't shown Final Four potential (completely ignoring the past two seasons)
- We can sign any big time coach we want at any time, including Brad Stevens (not true)
- The ghost of John Wooden has nothing better to do than haunt Purdue basketball for the last 45 years and insure mediocrity, despite the fact he's only been dead for about 2 of them.
- There is absolutely no hope for the future and we might as well downgrade to Division III and hope we can compete with Wabash College.
Everyone needs to relax. It was one awful loss in which everyone was to blame. In retrospect, yes Painter deserves blame, but his body of work is more than enough reason to not run him off right now. In fact, it was only 10 months ago that EVERYONE (fans, players, the mainstream media, etc.) was collectively losing his shit that he might be gone, and a 12-4 mark int he 16 games since his extension with a depleted roster is a fireable offense?
Players like Ryne Smith had a bad game, but his body of work (he is our No. 2 leading scorer) make him far from a wasted scholarship. Nearly every single player on the roster was abysmal at Penn State. Let's throw away the tape and move on.
I admit I went overboard talking about a Big Ten title and predicting an easy win over Penn State, but can you blame me? Judging by the way we had played in our most recent outing ad the way the Nittany Lions had played all season of course it looked like an easy win, and I would predict it again if we played tomorrow. They are not a good basketball team and we absolutely should beat them easily because of how we have shown we can play. This is what we call an aberration, folks. The real test comes tomorrow at Minnesota.
2011-12 record: 12-4, 0-3 Big Ten
2010-11 record: 17-14, 6-12 Big Ten
Blog Representation: The Daily Gopher, From the Barn
Series with Purdue: Purdue leads 96-80
Last Purdue win: 73-61 at Purdue on 1/29/11
Last Penn State win: 70-67 at Minnesota on 1/13/11
The biggest story for Minnesota this season is that the Demon Wood of Xibalba has claimed one of their own, and it now has the power to do so away from home. Trevor Mbakwe, a potential All-American, was lost in their only non-conference loss to Dayton in the Old Spice Classic down in Orlando. They were able to stabilize and go 12-1 outside of conference, but they have lost to Illinois (in double overtime) Michigan, and Iowa to start the league. That is the biggest factor, honestly. This is a team that cannot afford an 0-4 start with trips to Indiana and Penn State afterward followed by a home game against Minnesota and a road trip to Michigan State.
This is a major turning point game for the Golden Gophers. Win it, and they can keep their NCAA hopes alive. Lose it, and I can see them sitting at 2-7 in the middle of Big Ten play well out of the race. Since we play them only once this year, and on the road, no less, it is big for us too. Their RPI is still respectable, and as we saw on Thursday, road wins cannot be taken for granted in this conference.
Since Mbakwe went down they have lost their leading scorer and rebounder in him, forcing them to change things up a bit. Ralph Sampson III is a plyer that should step forward, but honestly, he has been a major disappointment. As a 6'11" senior Big Ten center he should be a dominant player. Instead, he ebbs and flows. He had 22 in a mano-y-mano game against Meyers Leonard and Illinois, but only six the next game against Michigan. He averages only 9.3 points per game and a meager 5 rebounds. Folks, I am confident I could get five rebounds per game based on sheer hustle, and he has a foot height advantage.
Julian Welch has taken the bulk of the scoring load, but he is the only player averaging in double figures. Unlike Tim Frazier in a similar role for Penn State, Welch is not much of a rebounder and he only has 2.6 assists per game. Rodney Williams and Austin Hollins help out, with Williams being the primary forward in Mbakwe's absence. Maverick Ahanmisi, Chip Armelin, and Andre Hollins round out the rotation with respectable numbers as you can see above.
Minnesota presents an interesting case because since Mbakwe's injury, they have really done everything by committee. Mbakwe was serious 15 and 10 every night potential for them, so the adjustment has seen them spread everything around. They are a very deep team with 11 different guys seeing regulation action out of necessity. In a way, they are similar to us in that matter. They have to have everyone pulling their weight or their machine quickly seizes up.
We saw it at Penn State. Kelsey Barlow, DJ Byrd, and Hummel were the only players doing much of anything. We got essentially nothing from the rest of the roster and look what happened. As much as I would like to see us throw out a zone for rest purposes and because no one expects it from us, I don't think it will ever happen (it is my biggest beef with Painter). We can get very predictable not only offensively, but defensively.
Minnesota isn't a strong rebounding team without Mbakwe, so that should help us. Jacob Lawson needs to grab and secure the ball, not grab and immediately try to dribble. If we can get Sandi Marcius back and if Travis Carroll continues to improve, this could be a big game for all three of them. On the point guard front, Lewis Jackson needs to sit and heal, and I hope he does so we can prepare for life without him.
As much as this is a tipping point game for Minnesota, it is a huge one for us. We must come out and show that the Penn State debacle was a fluke. Wisconsin and Iowa would be more than happy to end our home winning streak if we don't wake up. Win this, and the Big Ten race is still technically in our control too since everyone except Michigan State has a loss. Yes, we need to focus on that game, but as long as Big Ten title is mathematically possible I am going to have it as a goal, and so should this team.
I hate to say it, but this is a must win for Purdue. Our season really is in the balance right now.
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There were people who wanted Painter gone last spring?
That’s pretty crazy, can’t say I blame you for kicking them off. Painter’s a heck of a coach and I do think he’ll get us there eventually.
Well those people are right
Because clearly making the sweet 16 is a big step down for us. After all, we were going to the final fours every year and competing with Duke for the national championship consistently when Gene Keady was here. Now I’m not excusing Painter for getting dominated by VCU last year and Penn State this week because those were inexcusably poor performances, but getting to the sweet 16 after Hummel got hurt two years ago was a super impressive coaching job and there are very few coaches that would have been able to do that. The truth is Painter will get things turned around, but our talent just isn’t that great this year and unfortunately IU is having a better season than I expected. I’m not worried about the long term success of the program under Painter at all.
This demon wood nickname was funny maybe the first two dozen times
Its starting to get a bit ridiculous though
by Froggr on Jan 7, 2012 12:31 PM EST via Android app reply actions
big game for bigs?
I’ll buy that if Sandi is back, anyone know his status? Lawson was doing well as part of a three headed, not so scary monster, but since splitting time with only TC he has struggled to secure boards and have as much an impact on the defensive end.
Our guards must show up tomorrow. We don’t have the inside-outside balance to afford a “present” vote from everyone 6’6" and under. Byrd has earned a few more minutes IMO from his play and effort the last few games, I’d be perfectly comfortable with TJ riding the pine more often. He is slowly becoming a non-factor, save a random scoring spree.
Let’s get another road W and get back on track! Go boilers!
by BoilerGOZ on Jan 7, 2012 12:39 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
I have to disagree with one thing you said
I admit I went overboard talking about a Big Ten title and predicting an easy win over Penn State, but can you blame me? Judging by the way we had played in our most recent outing and the way the Nittany Lions had played all season of course it looked like an easy win, and I would predict it again if we played tomorrow.
I think it was an expected win, but looking throughout how Purdue has played the last month or so a clunker of a game has been the trend and an aberration. The games against High Point and Western Carolina (at home, mind you) could have easily have been losses as well. Boiled Sports has described the performance pattern of this team so far, if you haven’t read it yet, it’s worth the read. Adding to the fact that Purdue usually loses an early B1G game to an opponent that usually ends up being marginal at best, I’m not that surprised (the beat-down was disheartening though).
I’ve said it before, this team is not that consistent, and most of it is due to some glaring weaknesses that have been already mentioned ad nauseum on this site. I expect this team to remain frustratingly inconsistent at times, and I don’t think that we’re truly in the running for a B1G championship when it’s all said and done (I could see 3rd or 4th place finish though). However we could start out with a 4-2 or 5-1 start – I agree with you there Travis.
I have also said that i would trade a B1G titles for FF appearances. Conventional wisdom would argue that regular season success gives you an easier path for postseason success. As of now, Purdue is not a conventional basketball program in the sense that we shat ourselves when given good opportunities— whether it’s an ACL tear or defense against speedy point guards. Not that I trust this team to do anything right now but maybe this team is a team that performs when the lights are on. Well at least I’m hoping that’s the case if they squeak into the dance. I’d take it, you guys would too.
To your call once more we rally...
I be the "nameless one" !!
Be back later with some thoughts
Actually, you're not the nameless one.
at least on Twitter
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
by BoilerTMill on Jan 7, 2012 1:20 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
"We have the Cannon, the Bucket, the Little Caesar's Bowl trophies, and I'm pretty sure the Nation's Best Kick-Off Team Trophy as well to put in our trophy case" --Purdue Coach Danny Hope
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 7, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, ok
no I am not on twitter…….but I’m pretty sure you are referencing me on several of your comments. No??
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 7, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'll try to clarify a few things
I realize I don’t have the same opinions as most fans on here, but I certainly won’t apologize for it. I’m a Purdue fan just the same as everyone else on here. The let downs and frustrations go back a long time, as we all know. If I can’t express myself here, then what good is this site?
I don’t call anyone names, or try to personally attack anyone, fan or player or coach. I respect these players and coaches, even tho they may be heavily criticized. That doesn’t equate to personal attacks, being criticized is the nature and reality of high level athletics. So……
1. you booted me from the site for using poor choices of words toward CMP and Keady in my comments (at the time) about them throwing PU under the bus (Keady on sports talk radio, CMP through spokeman), they were basically saying it was schools fault for them not being able to compete better, recruit and so on. I completely disagreed with that seeing how the institution had been extremely loyal to them and was greatly responsible for their opportunities. (Keady had no business saying that shit cuz he flat out sucked in the tourny with multiple talented teams and seeds). And I felt we should have let CMP walk IMO. I was not booted for my views but more so for the way I expressed them. You were very nice in your email explanation and invited me back but to tone it down. I wholeheartedly respected that.
2. Painter still had the 2 better players in the country and the best defensive player, so getting man handled in the sweet16 wasn’t that big of an accomplishment, just decent. Further, without being able to parlay decent success with recruiting (esp just even one big guy) thats on Coach IMO to not have anyone remotely good enough to step in. And if he couldn’t keep the Traitor, well who’s that fall on?
3. No, Final Four potential only exists when a team literally falls just short of that potential. We never came close, no contest in 2 third round games and no contest in 2 second round games. If we had potential with 1 All-American and another top20 player, why did we shit the bed against a zone (or no zone) and got killed? We had the thought of potential in our HEARTS because of Hummel injury, but sadly we will never know for sure.
4. No one can say we could not have gotten Stevens or anyone else, thats absurd to assume. No one will know until they are offered the job, so its not out of the question. Nothing is ever out of the question when it comes to college coaching, in any sport.
5. The Wooden reference was more sarcasm than anything cuz I’m a lifelong Cubs fan (yeah I know rough life as a fan all together). Although PU did blow that move, I mean come on!
Its just my opinion that Painter ain’t gonna get us over the hump to the FF or NCgame. He’s good, but not great. Hopefully I’m waaay off!! Because I’ll will be the first one running around campus butt naked drunk off my ass and would gladly spend the night in jail if they pull it off, a banner that is.
I love your work tmill and this site…thanks for creating it.
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 7, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
On Purdue "blowing that move" of not hiring Wooden....
Let’s set the record straight here….
Wooden’s alma mater Purdue University wanted him to return to campus and serve as an assistant to then-head coach Mel Taube until Taube’s contract expired. Then, at that time, Wooden would take over the program. Citing his loyalty to Taube, Wooden declined, as this would have effectively made Taube a lame-duck coach.
In spite of these achievements, Wooden reportedly did not initially enjoy his position at UCLA, and his wife did not favor living in Los Angeles. When Mel Taube left Purdue in 1950, Wooden’s inclination was to return and finally accept the head coaching job there. He was ultimately dissuaded when UCLA officials reminded him that it was he who had insisted upon a three-year commitment during negotiations in 1948. Wooden felt that leaving UCLA prior to the expiration of his contract would be tantamount to breaking his word.
So, really, Purdue offered Wooden the job TWICE and he turned it down both times.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
"We have the Cannon, the Bucket, the Little Caesar's Bowl trophies, and I'm pretty sure the Nation's Best Kick-Off Team Trophy as well to put in our trophy case" --Purdue Coach Danny Hope
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 7, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
Man.. can you imagine what things would have been like for our program
if nothing but the timing had been different for when Purdue offered him the job?
To your call once more we rally....
Here's one scenario
The offer to Wooden was in 1950. He didn’t get to his first FF until 1962. During his tenure at Purdue he was consistently getting ridiculed for “not winning when it matters”, “not getting the best recruits”, “not adjusting to the opponents”. After every bad loss (and there are a few!) he gets angry fans wanting him to be fired.
Oooops, sorry, are we talking about Wooden here or Painter?
Westwood > West Lafayette also
Pretty sure Walton and Jabaar don’t make the trek to WL if that happens… but nice analogy btw.
To your call once more we rally...
Thx for setting the record straight
It’s interesting to note the “lame-duck” coach approach started long time ago and not just Keady-Painter and Tiller-Hope. Frankly, I think it is not necessarily a bad idea, but then Wooden lived in a different era with different values.
Not bad Carmen
but wikiped doesn’t tell the whole story…..
Taube was hired in Jan of 1946, immediately after Lambert announces retirement. Its also noted that Piggy had suffered from frequent winter colds and had been considering resigning for a long time, he was only 7-14 in his last season. So Wooden was hired LATER in 1946 by IS tech, but Wooden was honored to take over for his Martinsville HS coach (Curtis). See Taube was an assistant to Piggy for a few years and a letterman in bball and football (also asst coach in football), definately a Purdue guy. So, PU admin had a choice, take the greatest bball player (at least top 3) in the history of the game plus their own STAR, as well as a coaching resume that only consisted of one loosing season (his first) with a prep record of 218-42……or hire Taube right away. Knowingly or not, powers that be blew it.
Actually, Minnesota had him hired in1948 but he opted at the last hour for UCLA. And could be said they got “the curse”! But ultimately Wooden was picked over in the beginning, fate I guess.
Like I said before, the comment was only in fun and sarcasm cuz of my Cub background, and I think the history of the Greatest is intriguing to say the least.
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 7, 2012 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Another example of hindsight bias
It’s as if in 1946 everyone should have known Wooden to be the best coach ever lived, and anyone who didn’t hire him is an idiot and blew it!
Wooden took over UCLA in 1948. He didn’t get a 4th place finish in NCAA until 1962. The four years prior to that he was 16-10, 16-9, 14-12, and 18-8. Not bad, but certainly not great. If every UCLA fan is like you, then after four seasons of “good but not great” they would be saying things like “Painter Wooden ain’t gonna get us over the hump to the FF or NCgame. He’s good, but not great.”
right, thats what I said
“fate I guess”
picked over for sure
And again I don’t think MP the answer, and hope he proves me wrong
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 7, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Answer: the Traitor
And if he couldn’t keep the Traitor, well who’s that fall on?
Feedback
You actually make some sense here, unlike your comments in another thread. Seems like you are getting improvement :-)
If I can’t express myself here, then what good is this site?
Wholeheartedly agree. I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend your right to say them.
being criticized is the nature and reality of high level athletics
Absolutely agree. My rule of thumb is always – criticism, yes; throwing them under the bus (e.g. calling them garbage), no.
Keady had no business saying that shit cuz he flat out sucked in the tourny with multiple talented teams and seeds
Other than Big Dog, what “talent” are you talking about? How many first round picks we have in Keady’s years? You may criticize Keady’s lack of success in recruiting, but I don’t think “multiple talented teams” is a good description. If anything, it is just that he got his players to overachieve, and their run came to an end when “hard work” is not enough to beat “talent + hard work”.
getting man handled in the sweet16 wasn’t that big of an accomplishment
Getting man handled? You mean against Duke? We were down by 1 at the half and was still tied with 13 minutes left. Sure, we ran out of gas in the end and a loss is a loss there’s no sugarcoating, but how is it “man handled”?
without being able to parlay decent success with recruiting (esp just even one big guy) thats on Coach IMO
I actually agree with you on this one. How do we not getting better recruits in 2009 and 2010 is beyond me. For 2011, I dunno what happened with Dawson but everything I’ve read Painter was doing all the right thing so I don’t wanna lay that on him.
No one will know until they are offered the job, so its not out of the question.
I agree you won’t know until you offer, but that is not taking risk/reward into account. Casual and naive fans who don’t think may say, “Well, we should have at least offered Stevens. We won’t know if he would accept unless we offered.” But that’s not how it works! You can’t steal second base with a foot on first. The moment we offered Stevens, it means for sure we are cutting ties with Painter. Now if we didn’t get Stevens (A LOT of schools also tried to get him but failed), then who do we fall back on? You suggested Sean Miller (yeah, the chance of getting him is even smaller than Stevens), and Fran McCaffery (what a joke).
Because I’ll will be the first one running around campus butt naked drunk off my ass and would gladly spend the night in jail if they pull it off, a banner that is.
Great, I’ll hold you accountable to that. The first realistic chance is 2014 or 2015 so you still have several yrs to get ready.
Right on
but I wish I didnt have several years to “get ready”!
But Gene had 6 conf titles, which means 1,2,3 seeds 6 times. Of course he made E8 with GRob, but was dismal other years (excp 2000, but got beat by Wisc 3 times in a row that year?? uhg!). Believe me, dismal ….watched every game
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 7, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
If you don't want to wait
but I wish I didnt have several years to "get ready"!
Well, you can go run naked now, and when Purdue wins the championship you don’t have to run again ;-)
But Gene had 6 conf titles, which means 1,2,3 seeds 6 times.
That doesn’t say anything about “multiple talented” teams. To me, it just means he gets his players to overachieve, since only one player (correct me if I am wrong, I just can’t recall any) in his 6 conf champ teams was a first round pick.
Believe me, dismal ….watched every game
I know, I was once a season-ticker holder.
ha ha, think I'M gonna wait
i"m thinking 87 (cried that night 2nd rd exit), 90 (hoosier dome 2nd rd exit 2 seed), 84 should have been better (bad LSU team beat us), 95 and 96 too
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 7, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
to add to the pain of the replays and ACL mentions
we’ll probably be so fortunate to get Timmy Doyle calling the game.
Kind of shocking to see a disciplined Tennessee team....
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
"We have the Cannon, the Bucket, the Little Caesar's Bowl trophies, and I'm pretty sure the Nation's Best Kick-Off Team Trophy as well to put in our trophy case" --Purdue Coach Danny Hope
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 7, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
We have the Cannon, the Bucket, the Little Caesar’s Bowl trophies, and I’m pretty sure the Nation’s Best Kick-Off Team Trophy as well to put in our trophy case" —Purdue Coach Danny Hope
Not sure when you added that to your signature, but I’m still laughing after reading it multiple times now.
Thanks...
Direct quote, post game interview, Little Caesar’s Pizza Bowl.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
"We have the Cannon, the Bucket, the Little Caesar's Bowl trophies, and I'm pretty sure the Nation's Best Kick-Off Team Trophy as well to put in our trophy case" --Purdue Coach Danny Hope
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 7, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
He did. That's what the quote says.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
"We have the Cannon, the Bucket, the Little Caesar's Bowl trophies, and I'm pretty sure the Nation's Best Kick-Off Team Trophy as well to put in our trophy case" --Purdue Coach Danny Hope
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 8, 2012 5:22 AM EST up reply actions
Kicking off and returning kicks are two different things.
I figured he was alluding to the two awful onside kicks that were so bad they were good..
but the kickoff return TD did put us at the top of the national list for YPR though, I think.
To your call once more we rally....
by BoilerPaulie on Jan 14, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
He really said that?!?!?!
I’d trade all that for a Rose Bowl trophy … no, I’d trade that even for a Rose Bowl appearance!
In his post game interview with Kelly Kitchell. Yes.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
"We have the Cannon, the Bucket, the Little Caesar's Bowl trophies, and I'm pretty sure the Nation's Best Kick-Off Team Trophy as well to put in our trophy case" --Purdue Coach Danny Hope
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 8, 2012 5:22 AM EST up reply actions
I guess they'll win that last one for sure...
This is a team that cannot afford an 0-4 start with trips to Indiana and Penn State afterward followed by a home game against Minnesota
Couldn't agree more on Painter
There is not another coach in the country that could take these players and put together a more successful season. Painter gets more out of his talent then any other coach. Everyone is really upset with our losses to Butler and Penn State, but why? All three programs have about the same level of basketball talent. Purdue is slightly higher because of Hummel and Jackson, but they are not a 100%.
Wait a fear years until Painter has some consistant talent to work with. We will have a lineup that is not undersized and can have 5 players on the floor that have more then one skill set.
This is painter's 7th year...
He has shown success, yes, but he has shown some flaws,all coaches have them. CK Keaton and the 3 Boilers… and yet no sniff of a FF appearance. That’s disheartening for them and us, because they earned the right to be a FF team except for when it counted the most. That being said, on paper, the next 2 recruiting classes are better than the last 3. Now we have to see what happens with these players once they get on campus, they will have to improve—as well as the coaching staff. I hope Painter doesn’t get more like Keady and is settled on just the “Purdue way”, cuz that way hasn’t worked for 32 years
To your call once more we rally...
The "not a sniff of a Final Four" has a huge asterisk
The Robbie injury in 2010 will always have a major asterisk because that team with CK3 and Grant was playing so well at the time he got hurt. You’re forgetting, we’re a likely No. 1 seed and we avoid Duke totally before Indy if Rob doesn’t get hut. We dominated most of the games at OSU and MSU before he got hurt, and we likely win an outright Big Ten title with a healthy Rob, have the No. 1 seed in the NCAAs, and I know that teams makes the Final Four.
last year was starting to look like a Final Four team before the sudden, unexplained tailspin too.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
Yeah i forgot to add that in...
I did mention it in my above post though… the one that I disagreed with your statement. I still say that we may have been a FF team…or we may not have. I also state that MSU got there without Lucas, who granted escaped playing Kansas that year. Regardless of asterisks, They hadn’t sniffed it. I think we’re all just wondering when it will happen.
To your call once more we rally...
Painter will do anything for a Final Four
Painter has the same mindset as Keady but his drive is to win a National Championship is 2nd to none. In the past few years, he has pressured Burke into investing in the program, spending more time and in more states on recruiting, and now has a contract with high expectations.
His only “flaw” I’ve noticed might be his judgement on the physcial and skills development of his younger highschool recruits. Problem is he is in one of the most difficult recruiting situations of any school in the nation. He has to recruit in the state of Indiana where majority of the people are still living in 1987 and think Indiana University is a powerhouse and god’s gift to basketball. For those recruits (and their parents) that can think for themselves, Painter has to compete with MSU, Illinios, OSU, Louisville, Missouri, Xavier, and Kentucky. This is why we see Painter signing freshmen and sophmores in highschool. He’s gambling that they will devleop into a solid D1 talent. Things did not pan out for the classes of 2008 through 2011 but we are looking better for 2012 and even better for 2013.
I don’t think Painter needs a superstar or two to get to the Final Four. He needs a balanced team that is average or above in shooting, rebounding, driving to the basket, and a post game. Everyone questions Painter’s “lack of adjustments” during a game, but he does not have the talent to change the plan.
As far as Final Four appearances, with Hummel, Johnson, and Moore, it can be explained. 2008 they were all freshman and overachieved. 2009 we lost to UConn in the 3rd round which had 5 players that are in the NBA today. JJ had to defend 7’3" Thabeet. It was a horrible matchup for us. 2010 & 2011 was all injury related. Once Hummel went down, we had to rely on 6’4" Byrd and 6’3" Kramer for our PF and had no one else on the team that could create their own shot besides JJ and Moore.
I understand the explanations
but eventually a school that prides itself on basketball needs to get past explanations and get to a FF once in a generation, seriously. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not blaming Painter or the players. I’m saying that we have expectations, we want them met. That being said, I agree we’ll get there… I’m just saying it’s a shame we didn’t even get to Elite Eight with this team, when we had a clear path to face Kansas for a trip to Houston…
To your call once more we rally...
I understand where you are coming from
And yes, not at least meeting Kansas in EE is a huge disappointment to last year’s team.
Oh well, let’s move on.
Well said, and I'd agree mostly
But that begs the question, if the Classes of 2008-2011 doesn’t pan out as you say (and I agree), then shall we change strategy? Looking at the 2012 Class, the two most important posn (PG and C) are both late commit, and it seems most ppl are more excited about them. So maybe there is a virtue in waiting?
Second, I understand and agree with the IU “powerhouse” argument. IU will forever be Indiana’s first choice. But you can’t use “competing with MSU, Ill, O$U, UL, X, UK and Mizzou” as an excuse. Every school competes with some other schools in recruiting. Louisville has to compete with UK (and many others) for recruits. MSU has to compete with Mich and O$U. Everyone has to compete with some powerhouses somewhere. It is a problem every coach has to face.
Good points
We are just in a unique geographical situation where high end coaches/schools exist in a close proximity. Write out the top 20 recruiting coaches in the nation on a peice of paper. Calipari, Pitino, Matta, Crean, Izzo, and Mack all make this list. Those schools are in a 300 mile radius. It’s not an excuse, but a major roadblock.
For all coaches, it’s like the chicken and the egg. You need a FF to get recognition and street credit but it usually takes a talented crew to get there. However, other tactics we can use to be more competitive in recruiting is (1) schedule high profile opponents in preseason, (2) more games on national tv, and (3) select a few states far away from Indiana and build a network. My (4) would have been to reduce the entrance standards to that of our competitors but we know that won’t happen.
Regardless, unless you are great at predicting players physcial and talent development, I don’t like signing them early because you might not end up with what you need… especially guards.
Fair enough
I agree with you on the geography. But then it should be at least partially offset by the fact that we are in a basketball-crazy state. You can be the only school in Alaska and having no competitors within 300 miles, but your pool of talent is very limited.
I agree with your #1, #2 and #3 about recruiting. I am hesitant on #4, b/c it can be walking down a slippery slope. Once you start treating academics as secondary. Also, some players (e.g. Chasson Randle) specifically pick the school b/c of academics.
unless you are great at predicting players physcial and talent development, I don’t like signing them early because you might not end up with what you need… especially guards.
Wholeheartedly agree!
Refresh My Memory
But what recruits during the 2008 and 2011 periods were early commits (ie: committed as sophomores or freshmen)? I don’t think you can call it a flaw when in fact the players who have committed early haven’t even stepped foot on campus.
by ZoKnowsDefense on Jan 8, 2012 1:03 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Memory refreshed
Anyone signing before the start of their Junior basketball season is considered an early commitment and still needs 2 seasons to develop. Most top 40 players commit at the end of their Junior year or at the start of their senior season.
Carrol committed at the very end of his sophmore year. AJ, TJ, Barlow, Byrd committed before the start of their Junior basketall season. These were the dates they committed. Most had offers during their sophmore season.
Seven years
Not to say that Painter will for sure be a great coach, but keep in mind that Jim Boeheim was at Syracuse for 11 yrs before his first FF, Jim Calhoun was at UConn for 13 yrs before his first FF, and the great John Wooden 14 yrs at UCLA before his first 4th place finish.
damn thing (computer)
good point, said that yesterday about wooden
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 7, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Lewis Jackson deserves some slack
He’s been battling injuries all season.
Ryne was abysmal, though. His shots were as ugly as I’ve ever seen.
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Senior All-American Alto Sax
Still don't understand
Why single out Smith? Yes, he had a terrible game shooting, but if anything TJ, AJ, Hart and Lawson are a lot worse in the last game.
Not to mention, in this “abysmal” game, Smith led the team in assists and had 4 rebounds, the same as the athletic Lawson and Barlow COMBINED. Heck, Smith even had a BLK and a STL and no TO (TJ had 4, LewJack 2, Lawson 2). Why keep picking on Smith? Why Smith deserves no slack for busting his ass in other areas despite his lack of athleticism?
Smith gets pick on because
people have higher expections for him then they should. Smith was brought into Purdue to hit the 3 and make minimal mistakes. He wasn’t brought in for his defense. He wasn’t brought in to drive to the basket. he wasn’t brought in to rebound, block shots, etc….
I think Smith has been playing welll above his talent level from any expectations when he was brought in. Everyone has poor shooting nights and can’t be expected to shoot well all the time. The fact that he out-rebounds our starting and backup center is disturbing.
Absolutely agree with what you say
But I still don’t understand, coz then shouldn’t TJ get even higher expectation given his higher ranking in high school? Shouldn’t Lawson be held to a higher expectation b/c of his athletic ability? Shouldn’t AJ get higher expectation, given he was once a ESPN 60 player? Those guys played an equally bad (if not worse) game, and has been contributed a lot less the entire season, but I mostly only hear Smith getting the blame. Why?
The expectation isn't there for TJ, AJ, and Lawson for a number of reasons
Reason #1: They aren’t seniors. They aren’t the leaders of this team. Ryne is a senior and is a leader of this team.
Maybe next year or the year after we can expect more from them.
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Senior All-American Alto Sax
So seniors can't have a bad game?
And by bad, he still beat the other 3 starters COMBINED on a per-minute basis in EVERY category:
Smith: 33 mins, 5 pts, 2-8 FG, 4 rebs, 2 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk, 0 TO, 0 foul
Jackson + Lawson + Barlow: 63 mins, 8 pts, 3-14 FG, 5 rebs, 4 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk, 5 TO, 5 fouls
I wonder what Ryne has to do to please his critics? Unless he makes 7 threes and scores over 20 pts each and every game? Unless he drives to the hoop and dunk? Unless he becomes second-coming of Chris Kramer? (For the record, he did lead the team in charges taken last year)
How come no one blames Robbie for 2-6 and 5 pts against Illinois? After all, he’s a senior and so much is expected for him to be our all-B1G player.
I am curious what are the other reasons as to single out Ryne Smith as the scapegoat for our ugly loss?
I SOMETIMES do because...
he stomps around the court after a stop screaming and pounding on his chest at times when all he’s done is take a charge, but is absent in the other aspects of the game.
Just so I understand
You would rather him to NOT play with passion and NOT sacrifice his body to take a charge? After all, he is never recruited for his defensive prowess so anything we got from him should be a bonus.
Ideally, I would want a Ryne Smith type player to come off the bench, like Steve Kerr, and not rely on him to be our second leading scorer. But then if others don’t step up enough to play harder than Smith to overtake his spot, then I think they deserve more blame than Smith, don’t you think?
Expectations
TJ should have higher expectations. He as the strength and athletic ability to bring more skills to the court then Smith. Expectations for Lawson should not be high. He is a 6’6" 200lb three star freshman recruit that is forced to play Center in the Big Ten his first year. People don’t know what to expect out of AJ.
High expectations from a player come because that person has had multiple games of excellent performance. Smith has had many great shooting games this season. He’s made some really clutch shots. People see this and want it to happen every night. AJ, TJ, and Lawson have not put up many “excellent” performance nights. They’ve actually put up more “poor” performances and fans get used to it.
I personally do not have high expectations for either AJ or TJ at the D1 level. Both are undersized guards with no mid-range game that can not shoot. My expectations for Smith is to hit the open 3 more then half the time and overall shoot between 45% and 50% from 3.
What's up with Jackson
Is he going to play tomorrow?
Does it matter?
If he is gonna be playing like he did against PSU, we may as well rest him.
I agree
I’d rather have him vs Wisconsin.
Start Robbie, Lawson, Byrd, Barlow, and Smith.
I think everyone deserves the chance to redeem themselves, but LewJack just needs to take some time off.
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Senior All-American Alto Sax
LewJack resting
Painter said LewJack is beat up to a point where he might have to sit him for 2 consecutive games. He was hoping LewJack would heal up over the break but that didn’t happen.
Marcius is still questionable as well. There has been nothing about the severity of the injury.
We should be able to match up well against Minnesota. They play an underacheiving Sampson III @ center, 6’7" Williams at the PF, and a bunch of guards. I’ll bet we see a lot of Hummel and Rodney Williams at Center and a bunch of shorter guards on both sides filling the rest of the positions. The opening spread is Minn by 2.
We should have sat him
Against IPFW… He wouldve had a week n a half or so break if we did that (from game action that is).
by InsideMackey on Jan 8, 2012 2:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Different thought
I don’t know about the rest of you, but one thing I am VERY PROUD of as a Boilermaker fan, is the success we HAVE had (Final Four or not) by doing it the right way. I want a Final Four and National Championship just as bad as the rest of you, but I can accept what we get so long as we keep doing it the “Purdue Way.” First and foremost we have a clean program. Our recruits aren’t being paid by boosters, players aren’t trading memorabilia for tattoos, and our players aren’t dirty thugs. Our players play TEAM basketball and rarely show off. We have a focus on defense which is becoming a lost art in basketball. And we have a head coach who not only has good basketball knowledge and was taught by one of the best (Keady), but he is also a great mentor to our student athletes and a well spoken/respected ambassador for Purdue University. Purdue basketball isn’t sexy and it never will be. While I do wish we got a little more respect, frankly, I don’t ever want us to reach “sexy” status. That isn’t who Purdue University and Purdue Basketball are.
Like many of you, I was pissed after the PSU game. Everybody shit the bed in some regard, including Matt Painter. That said, I can’t believe some of the shit I have read since the game ended. Get a grip people! Outside of having Gene Keady back (yes I said it… he was my idol growing up as a kid and what got me to become a Boilermaker), which I know isn’t even realistic, there aren’t too many people I can think of who I would want as a coach more than Matt Painter. He will pull his head out of his ass (where it was located Thursday night) and so will Rob, Ryne, Lewis, TJ, etc. Everybody has days where their head is in their ass (myself included) and our basketball team/coach is not an exception to the rule. Bitching when it is warranted is acceptable, but there is a line that shouldn’t be crossed unless things really go haywire and Purdue Basketball is miles upon miles away from that line being able to be crossed! Put your pitchforks down, extinguish the fires, and cheer on Purdue tomorrow.
Buckeye by birth, but BOILERMAKER by the grace of God!
It is not a different thought
You speak EXACTLY how I feel too. Thank you!
I was just thinking the same thing
I could not agree more with you. I wouldn’t trade what we have now for what a school like o$u has. They have to have, hands down, the dirtiest athletics program in the nation. I would not accept having that in exchange for national success in any sport. I am very proud of the way Coach Painter runs our beloved program.
"Dirtiest athletics program in the nation"?
Miami would like a word with you.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Jan 10, 2012 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
I have no choice but to agree with you.
To your call once more we rally....
by BoilerPaulie on Jan 14, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
Can't drop down to D3...
Wabash/Purdue games would tear the family apart. Although it would be a lot of fun watching Purdue beat the hell out of DePauw every year…
awesome discussion on plural words.. including mooseses.
To your call once more we rally....
by BoilerPaulie on Jan 14, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Not confident with this game
Not trying to doubt the boilers but I think we struggle against sampson inside and they exploit us and we lose. We just rely way to much on the three and when it doesnt fall (penn state) we lose.
I'd Be Surprised
We play poorly today. Whether it is enough to be the Gopher is the question.
by ZoKnowsDefense on Jan 8, 2012 2:33 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Wouldn't worry too much about Sampson
He’s a 6’11" version of Carrol that can make free throws. On the offensive end, Sampson can not be found near the basket and only has 15 offensive rebounds on the year. On the defensive end, he can block shots but we have no post presence anyway. If they are going man-to-man, it will actually help to have Carrol in the game and pull Sampson away from the basket. Expect Sampson to start attempting moves in the paint and migrate away from the basket as the game goes on.
If we lose, it will be because of poor shooting.
Not down here
I watch a lot of college basketball and some great teams get blown out every week. We are not great but very good and I won’t miss a game this year. Painter is best coach we have had since George King back in the Rick Mount era. Boiler Up


















