Should Painter and Hope Pay Street Agents ?
by oldboiler52 on Jan 23, 2012 4:46 PM EST
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"College sports are dirty."
Just because it’s legal doesn’t make it right.
No
and no
I don’t care what anyone else is doing, there’s a reason you can’t get out of a speeding ticket by saying ‘I was only following traffic.’
We've done it before...
Luther Clay anyone????
Note, this doesn’t mean I advocate cheating… but just reminding you Purdue has had their share of shady recruiting
To your call once more we rally...
Exact examples?
“Purdue has had their share of shady recruiting”
I haven’t been around too long, so could you please provide me with some specific examples where Purdue has recruited in a “shady” manor?
Luther Clay...
Read this Reason why Frank Kendrick left Purdue as an assistant coach
To your call once more we rally...
This is an example why we should NOT pay street agent
After all this, you know how many minutes Luthur Clay play as a Boilermaker? Heck, he isn’t even that good of a player anyway.
Bottom line, it just doesn’t worth it.
After seeing
The crap moving up.I posted the story on Chandler.I heard Pitino paid $ 12,000 to have him tutored. These guy swarm around all 4 star and 5 star. If you see a recruit with a Entourage they want paid.
I think we would be better off winning the Horizon League every year and then boring the country to death with our adorable story through the NCAA tourney.
by grebek on Jan 23, 2012 6:01 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Absolutely not
and its not even a question worth asking
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
Most definitely.
It makes the reward that much sweeter. Plus, it wouldn’t seem like a true success if we weren’t doing things the right way.
"Hummel for three..... BULLSEYE!!!"
x2, no, no, and NO
That’s just walking down a slippery slope, and there’s no end to it and we know it.
If we get a punk like Dawson, while I may feel good when he doing a f-you dunk and having a conversation with the opposing team’s coach, I just can’t see myself cheering for a guy like him outside those 40 minutes.
We may get a championship or two, but haven’t we learned from Fab 5? The cost of getting to the NC twice and taking the country by storm is more than a decade of mediocrity or worse. Is this how we want it?
I loved the fab 5... I still do
In the end they were just like Butler.
But it’s sad… Purdue hasn’t been Nationally Relevant to the fact that the media has to stop and say “Wow, this team made it to the FF and they have a good thing going up in West Lafayette”. At least Michigan got to say that…Now the shadiness that occurred there is disappointing, but I think that Michigan profited in so many ways because of the fab 5 (which in itself is shady with ALL COLLEGES). UM BASKETBALL, not football, apparel was the apparel to wear, especially in urban areas in the 90’s… Carolina followed suit afterwards, as well as Georgetown… etc.
Now trust me Purdue will never be as ghetto appealing, or even that common suburban fan appealing - you won’t see guys saying rocking Purdue stuff in the streets- as those other groups. But having a nationally relevant style means a lot. Going back to MSU, getting the Flintstones to come to EL was huge. That’s what defined Sparty, athletic bruising players. Honestly it’s a shame that Glenn Robinson was hurt against Duke. That team could have been the team after the fab 5 and before the Flinstones.
Now with all of this being said. I agree with you Charlespig. i’m just looking at it from another side. I’d say this, it seems like everybody on this panel would want us to be like The 4 letter’s favorite Four-letter college, which I find comical because I feel like everybody on here hates that team in Durham
To your call once more we rally...
Rather not make any Final 4's
Than win it all by cheating.
Being clean is why we love Purdue, and it will make it that much sweeter if and when we finally come through.
The real question I have is
How does one get into the “street agent” business?
You start early
Get on a kid in junior high . ESPN insider had a huge story on this in football they have these 7 on 7 camps that are all run by scouting services. In basketball it is usually high profile AAU teams and guys sign up to be assistants either drivers or coaches. Then you befriend them and tell them what they want to hear. If you as a basketball coach want to recruit them you have to go thru their (uncle) . Whats in it for the players cars leased by the(uncle) use of the (uncles) credit card or someone to take your SAT’s for you. Coaches that don’t pay get bashed they tell the recruits they don’t love you their offering you nothing but they gave $ 50,000 to this guy and your better than him. When most payments are made they are made by some one who can’t be traced or an asst.coach who is expendable.
I prefer your updates on our recruits
I remember Keady speaking out against this sort of thing. I was glad he did so. I hope college basketball hasn’t changed enough so that people have to because everyone else is.
by Beavis Beefcake on Jan 23, 2012 8:23 PM EST reply actions
Please don't
misunderstand I put this up because many were saying we can’t recruit. I love the way we do things right. But its harder to do the right thing. What I am really saying is give them a break . I am not saying cheat.
Ah ok, it is such a thin line for me
I missed the point—came out as, why shouldn’t we.
It’s tough to convey that over the internet. I’m so used to your good factual style…rereading, yes, I see it, but I let myself see red there.
Glad to know I probably should’ve read more carefully. I think Painter is doing what he can, too.
by Beavis Beefcake on Jan 23, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
this is written like everyone else is doing it but Purdue
the basketball programs and players involved with street agents are minimal at best. Most of the time it comes from inner city areas, such as Chicago, NYC and Atlanta. Still the practice is not the norm like you are making it out to be.
You don’t have to get dirty to recruit effectively. Tom Izzo has shown elite recruiting can be done the right way (Please don’t give me the crap argument that Dawson was paid to go to State, I’m not buying it).
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I never
said he got paid to go there. I said I heard the conversation and I did it was in the hospitality room at conseco many heard it. It was at that time a rumor that came true do not twist my words to come to your conclussion do not.
by oldboiler52 on Jan 23, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
OldBoiler you are definitely becoming the most mysteriously awesome person on H&R.
How do you find out all these stats about our recruits, and I definitely want to know how to get into the hospitality room! Not prying, just wondering out loud.
by Caleb Benner on Jan 23, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
I was a guest
with a banker who wanted to sell me his foreclosiers. I waited a few days to tell him I couldn’t afford it. Funny thing he is trying to sell me 13 of them now lucky # ain’t it. Hell of a deal only wants 475 for them. As to the recruits I search and follow the leads. Also some will let me know what they did. Several follow HR one tweeted me about charlespig today. But I know nothing just stuff I have seen or read .Don’t take what I say as fact.
by oldboiler52 on Jan 23, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
What?!?!
Several follow HR one tweeted me about charlespig today.
What the hell?!?! Me?!?! What?! What about me? So someone finds out I am actually Morgan Burke disguising as a fan here?
Well, thx for at least considering me as a friend
BTW, what happens if you say foe? Will someone come shoot me down? ;-)
I echo what Caleb says. OldBoiler you are definitely becoming the most mysterious awesome on H&R. It’s like you have all these inside scoop. If anything, I am also interested in the foreclosure thing you do.
like I said Purdue has done it as well.... in the past
I don’t buy the Dawson being paid to go to MSU lso… but hey if PurdueMatt says it so… it must be true. I hope we can be able to get better recruits eventually. I also think you can do it clean. It just hasn’t been done yet @ Purdue
To your call once more we rally...
by H Dot Jones on Jan 23, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
the origin of the Dawson got paid meme
is from the fact that Dawson’s high school assistant coach was paid to put on a clinic in town in the name of MSU for some middle schoolers. Later in the year, he gave Dawson a ride to Michigan State for a game. A little while later, somehow, it was discovered that this individual was paid $400 for this camp. So he was technically a paid employee of MSU giving a recruit a benefit of a ride to an unofficial visit. Therefore, recruiting violation. The rumor is that Matt Painter brought this discrepancy to surface. So that’s kinda like dirty recruiting right? See! Purdue is dirty too!
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Your wrong it was not Painter
Keep digging and then come back track the coach.
by oldboiler52 on Jan 23, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
I just said that's the rumor
and allegedly why the Izzo/Painter lovefest has cooled over the last couple months.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
So you did
The way it came out was not Painter. But from the asst.coach . But why was he the guy who gave Dawson a ride ? Why hire him to run the event ? Why go thru him to talk to Dawson ? Not saying just asking. Ask yourself why ? And research this guy you will have more ? about Dawson.
they didn't go through him
they hired this guy to do a camp, like they do everywhere. All major programs hire individuals to help put on a camp in their name. This guy was a legit candidate for the job. This camp also happened before MSU got big into the Dawson sweepstakes.
You make it sound like we never landed on the moon or the Illuminati have a new world order than involves an American President born in Kenya.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
or the Illuminati have a new world order than involves an American President born in Kenya.
You mean he wasn’t born in Kenya?
by GeorgiaBoiler on Jan 24, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, we landed on the Moon
and the first guy to do it was a Boilermaker =)
I, for one, appreciate everything oldboiler has contributed over the past couple of months. I definitely think it has upped my knowledge of our recruits and given me ammo for discussions.
Additionally, I would rather have no FFs than win one dirtily (is that a word). These street agents are exactly that, dirty. I don’t care about legality. This is a question of morality. Thanks for starting this discussion oldboiler!
I think you nail it here
I don’t care about legality. This is a question of morality.
Just like JoePa. Some of us here seem to be VERY upset at JoePa and have no respect for the man b/c of his inaction (or not doing enough), even though JoePa did nothing illegal and followed the procedure and reported the incident. The bottom line, it isn’t about legality but a question of morality.
Don’t make the same mistake. Just because it is legal doesn’t mean it is ethical.
OMG
He gets it. Once you are a little dirty they keep coming at you. Until you reek! Painter can Recruit and so can Hope they have to work harder at it.
NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN!
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Jan 23, 2012 10:57 PM EST reply actions
No absolutely not. I don't want a single cent of booster going to any recruits "uncle"
The fact that this conversation even has to be brought up shows how out of date and useless the NCAA is.
What is the Purdue way?
I truly think it works in the B1G only because the officiating gives Purdue more leeway than other conferences
To your call once more we rally...
lol
Are you serious???? we get away with a lot of physical play… @ Mackey especially!!! Trust me.
To your call once more we rally...
Everyone gets calls at home
we don’t get anymore than any other team
no you don't
but to say that they get the screws put to them by officials even at home is not accurate. The hand checking that is allowed on defense in Mackey would qualify as assault in most states.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
+1
We call Assembly Hall in Bloomington… the “Hall of Calls”. Other ppl in the B1G refer to our court as “Hackey Arena”… we get away with a lot guys
To your call once more we rally...
Your hypothesis doesn't stand up to the numbers
I just did a quick check over the last 6 games. They are all against B1G opponents, 3 home games, 3 away games; we have 3 wins, and 3 losses. It’s a small sample, but it seems the quality of opponents and the conditions that were played in are pretty stable.
When we are at home, we were called 60 fouls and the other team’s 62. When we are on the road, we were called 51 fouls and the other team’s 54. If anything, we were called MORE OFTEN at home (both absolute and relative to the opponent) than when we are on the road.
Again, small sample, so I cannot strongly refute your claim. But unless you can show some evidence, I’m afraid what you are saying are mere misconceived perceptions. (Also, I don’t have the resources to do a study, but I am pretty sure home teams – any home teams – tend to get called less than the visiting team. It is a topic covered in Scorecasting)
the margin of victory for the span of those away games were much greater
on average than your home games. The margin of victory on the road is 6.5 points higher than at home. Close games are going to have more calls. Blowouts tend to be more lax from an officiating standpoint. For one, players are playing nearly as physical, but officials also tend to swallow their whistles.
@ MSU – 37 fouls – 25 point margin of victory
@ Minnesota – 37 – 13
@PSU – 31 – 20
@ Iowa – 34 – 3
Iowa – 48 – 7
Illinois – 37 – 15
Wisconsin – 37 – 5
Although this data somewhat refutes my previous point as the data shows that the officiating, at least in volume of calls everywhere is incredibly consistent.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Split Decision
I love love love my Purdue Basketball, I love the way the program is run, I love the players, I love the staff. I wouldn’t want a single stain on the reputation of that program.
Now football on the other hand….. I’m not so hung up on. The NCAA has a lot less power over football than it does over basketball these days. Since the NCAA was forced out of the TV contracting biz…. that’s a whole different side tangent. If Hope wanted to pay street agents and get some big talent to bring our football program out of the cellar, who cares. What’s the worst that happens?
1. He gets fired – Well, half (or more) of the people on this board want that anyway
2. Purdue loses scholarships – Well, that may suck, but let’s face it we don’t exactly have a bull rush of talent knocking the door down. We could probably lose some schollies and still have enough to satisy the demand…
3. Bowl ineligibility – This is the NCAA’s only real leverage against schools today, but how big of a blow is this really? OH NOES! WE WONT GETS TO GO 2 THE PIZZA BOWL AGAIN! OUR PROGAM ARE DOOMED!
I’m just playing devil’s advocate here, but in all seriousness look at a school like O$U. A “scandal” was revealed, the star quarterback and head coach were let go, and they were banned from bowl eligibility. That sounds awful, but let’s see, they got Urban Meyer out of the deal, and if you look at their incoming recruiting class, guess what you find? The #3 ranked class in country. So tell me, how bad did the “scandal” really hurt them? I think slap on the wrist is an understatement. If anything, they may be better off now than before. They haven’t contended for the national championship the last few years, I’d look for that to change shortly with Meyer and recruiting classes like that.
Sorry for the long post, but like I said, just a little devil’s advocate :)
I sense that we are all really uptight right now.
Maybe a 25 point drudging of Michigan tonight will calm us all down…
That's it
I believe expectations for this Bball team grew during the year, articles on Purdue winning or finishing high in the Big Ten this year.
Reality is, we all knew the team did not have a lot of talent. Most players on the team are role players, not starters. The hope was that MAtt would work his magic and the players would be better. They are to some degree, but the talent gap with the other top Big Ten schools has grown.
I hope that the recruiting rankings are accurate for 2012 and 2013. If so, we should be able to reload with talent.
Here's why Purdue is where they are in the B1G
Purdue in the B1G is:
10th – Defensive Rebounding
11th – Defensive is allowing teams to shoot 46.6%
9th – in points allowed per game
11th – 3 point field goal %
Defense Lives Here! Purdue needs to turn it up the heat and get in their grill.
by boilerbacker31 on Jan 24, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
NO!! x10,000
I’d rather we never win a game than cheat. As far as Dawson, he’s shown what a punk he is, I’m glad MSU has him, we don’t need kids like him.
I can't believe this
The answer is no, a million times no.
Why is this even up for discussion? We as a fanbase have roasted organizations like Ohio State (and now we are all up on Michigan State) for their supposed indiscretions and have lambasted players who signed petitions asking for monetary compensation for their time at universities. And now we want to act like we should jump in the ball pit and make it rain dollar bills?
I understand that Purdue probably isn’t or hasn’t always been a paragon of NCAA righteousness, but I can’t fathom why we as fans would ever endorse this kind of behavior. It’s wrong and I imagine any notoriety we gained from it would be stripped away from us eventually.
Is this because we are losing? Suddenly we all see the sky falling, we will never matter on the national stage, and cry that nobody pays attention to us. Deal with it, it’s a down year. Matt Painter is a good coach, we are getting recruits, and the rest will come as it does.
Until then let us perish any thoughts of dialing down our moral codes for a few cheap victories.
It's a trick, get an ax
So glad everyone is saying no
Well, everyone other than those saying “Oldboiler is full of Crap!!!!!!!!!!” Ha ha, obviously people love having you on here (as do I), I’m glad you have thick skin as well. Keep up the awesome posts!!!
Thank You very much
I put the crap on there because Many do not think this happen. But it seams to be a good answer I wish I could change my vote.
by oldboiler52 on Jan 24, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
would this be (paying st agent n whatnot)
what cmp and others were referring to the AD to get on board with a “commitment to winning”??
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 24, 2012 1:24 PM EST reply actions
No.
the ‘commitment to winning’ was about being able to pay his assistant coaches well enough that they would want to stay with the program
yes I know this but
the “commitment” couldn’t possibly be that narrow……could easily mean a broader scope of committing to winning
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 24, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
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