B1G coaches records and why IU lost
by oldboiler52 on Jan 19, 2012 12:39 PM EST
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#1 Thad Matta 12 yrs wins 77 % compares well to coach K. 76%
#2 Tubby Smith 21 yrs wins 70 %
#3 Tom Izzo 17 yrs wins 70 %
#4 Bo Ryan 13 yrs wins 70 %
#5 Matt Painter 8 yrs wins 70 %
#6 Bruce Webber 14 yrs wins 68 %
# 7 John Beilein 20 yrs wins 60 %
# 8 Doc Sadler 8 yrs wins 60 %
# 9 Fran McCaffery 16 yrs wins 57 %
#10 Tom Crean 13 yrs wins 57 %
#11 Pat Chambers 3 yrs wins 57 %
# 12 Bill Carmody 16 yrs wins 56 %
You are your record I rated yrs of experience as the tie breaker looking at the numbers is it any wonder since Painter took over the same four teams are always at the top excluding Tubby his record was built on UK not Minny.This is the way the B1G will probally finish this year as well OSU,MSU,Wiscy and Purdue will be your top 4.
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Do you realize what website you posted this on...
Of course everyone is going to vote for Crean, a 2-29 road B1G record will do that to you. Not to mention he coaches and IU our “big brother”
I would vote for Crean regardless.
He has done little with good recruiting classes and his teams play terrible defense.
Agree, this is a stupid poll because the bias is ridiculous
That being said, I think that Matta is partially overrated only because he’s a good recruiter… not so much a coach I believe. That goes for Weber as well… he inherited a gold mine with Self’s players… rode that to the FF…. The jury is still out with Painter, a little bit. I do think there are seasons where some teams are not that good… this being one of them. There are also some coaches who are great coaches but will never be truly valued because one of their teams didn’t have the sack, skill and luck to make it to the FF. At the end, if the value of a coach is to get the best out of all of his players in key situations then, I think that Painter is on his way of getting there with the next batch of players.
To your call once more we rally...
not true
I would have voted Weber if given the opportunity. You can’t vote for Tom Crean because in order for a coach to be overrated, you actually have to be rated. He’s been completely off the national discussion radar for four years until this season.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I understand there is a difference between overrated and overpaid
…so would you vote for Crean being most overpaid? If not, who?
don't know who is getting paid what
but Crean was paid to essentially start a basketball program from scratch at IU. I think he’s done a damn good job to date. Everyone forgets that Crean was asked to start with one returning walk-on and that is it. The fact that he’s come this far in three years and is able to recruit the way he is, it’s damn near a miracle.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Pretty good job for Crean in terms of recruiting
…but far from being a miracle. In the state of Indiana and if you are the coach of IU, you can just point to the banners, then promise the many excellent Indiana high school players plenty of PT and you should have no problem filling out the roster quickly with very good players. Do you need to pay someone $2M+ to do that when during this time guys like Painter who won three COYs was paid around $1M?
yes
yes you do. You try and sell to a kid, “look, there is absolutely nothing to go on here. You will get to play all four years and you will get to play a lot, but the chances of you having any sort of national success is not high. You probably won’t see a tournament game and you’re going to get beat by 20-30 points night in and out for at least the first few years. But what do you say?! We have five championships!”
This job was going to be an expensive job because its a career killer. Perception nationally is if you can’t succeed at IU, you won’t succeed anywhere. Any coach that had built up the resume that Crean had would need some more incentive than “hey! It’s Indiana!”. If Crean fails miserably in a highly volatile situation at IU, his major conference coaching career is done.
Painter’s conference COY came on the backs of 2 first round NBA picks. He isn’t looking so hot this year without the bevy of talent is he? Also so as to not be misleading, let’s be clear those were Conference Coaches of the Year, not National.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Why are you comparing Crean to the worst ever salesman?
Even I, without the $2M, know to tell a kid, “Son, you are coming in to make history. People may forget who is on that third championship team, but no one in Indiana will forget who resurrect the program from the ashes. The sky is the limit. You will be my workhorse and I’ll play your 30+ minutes from the get-go, and you’ll for sure get the chance to showcase your talent to the professional teams. We are going in this together. We are here to define our own program and build our own legacy, and your name will be forever be remembered as the savior and the white knight who save our proud tradition. Let’s do it now!”
If you fail at (anywhere), your (major conf) coaching career can be done. Just look at Pat Knight. So that is not an excuse for Crean about the IU job.
As for your reference about Painter, that’s just a lame argument. First, there is only one first round NBA pick. Second, it’s not his fault that he coaches players well that get them to play professionally. If so, Coach K must not be a good coach b/c he has all the McD AAs and NBA 1st-rounders and he only manages 4 national champ. Third, this is just so sour grape – it’s ONLY CONFERENCE COY. Find me another coach who has won 3 COYs in his conference in the last 4 yrs. There are 330+ D1 coaches out there, it should be easy right since it is ONLY conference COY, right?
coaches players well?
The two NBA players under his regime are top 50 recruits. There’s no doubt that Painter is a good coach, but we are seeing what he’s doing this year with considerably less talent and it isn’t pretty.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
So
I guess you just expect a team to not skip a beat after losing a first team all-american and record setting 4 year starting shooting guard…that seams resonable
no I don't
but you’re starting to see the reasoning I’m getting at. Expectations would be entirely too high to expect that. To expect Crean to show major success in the most competitive conference over the last 3 years when he started with one walk-on is also insane. This is the first year that IU actually had expectations and so far they’re surpassing/are right on pace with said expectations.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Um
No one said they expected crean to show success in the time hes been at IU, yea he took over a program with a crater sized hole in it but you are the one who is talking up crean success.
Most of us are just sick of hearing how great crean “has” been bc IU is better this year.
so none of his past actions have led up to this season?
you are all obsessed with “coaching up players”, does Crean not get credit for doing that and getting results this season?
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
15-4 with the 31st hardest schedule in the nation
after what this program has been through deserves credit.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Tied for first...
in the lost column. 1/2 behind Michigan who is in sole possession of first place currently.
We're not even half way in yet and have played on of the easiest schedules..
Let’s get through this upcoming stretch before you label us as having continued success.
Is MSUDersh the MSU guy?
I find it funny that an IU guy argues with a MSU guy on a Purdue board about whether Purdue has continual success and it needs a Purdue guy to calm them down.
HAHA my point was,
(though I didn’t state it) that, a third of the way through the conference season, Painter has his team in first right now. And this is with a team that lost two four year studs, and from what I can tell, Hummell isn’t playing at the level he once was.
Which tells me the guy can coach.
Oh I agree with your point
I just find the whole situation hilarious.
Carl Landry
was not a top 50 recruit.
by PurdueEnginerd on Jan 19, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Carl Landry was not Matt Painter's player
he was Gene Keady’s and stuck around for Painter’s freshman year.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
and sophomore year
forgot about the redshirt senior year
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
2/3 years he was here. He played for painter. and he was a transfer as well.
by PurdueEnginerd on Jan 19, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
and scored .8 points a game more with Painter over Keady
he was Keady’s player
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
his rebounds were consistent as well
just saying that the difference between him under Keady and Painter was negligible.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
2 first round picks that he recruited...
… with pretty similar circumstances to Crean. Keady mailed in his last 2 years, and didn’t leave him with much.
Giving all the credit to JJ and Etwaun is pretty stupid. Painter had a big part to do with the players they are today
situation was entirely different
Painter was a long time member at an established basketball program at Purdue and was the heir apparent walking into the job. He had years to recruit that 2007. Crean had one month to recruit his first class. One year to recruit his second and as we all know recruiting isn’t a sprint it is a marathon. You can’t sensibly compare the situations that Painter and Crean inherited.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Get your facts right
He didnt have years to recruit at Purdue because he was an associate head coach for ONE year @ purdue before he took over as head coachin 05-06!
04-06 when the baby boilers signed their LOIs
equals years
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Calling it BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In Painters 3rd year our top scores were 3 freshmen and two soph. Moore 12.9 Hummel 11.4 Grant 11.2 Martin 8.5 and Kramer 6.8 we had one senior a transfer named Crump. We finished 25-9 second in the B1G and made it to the second round.Its not a miracle its a joke we would have shot a coach for humilitating us like Crean has IU. I’m sorry but i am tired of hearing the same old lame excuses for running IU in the ground .
Crean has run IU in the ground?
He started with the program as subterranean. The fact that we’re poking our heads out of the ground is an accomplishment in its own right. The fact that we’re doing it with only two guys on the roster that were top 100 recruits (or four depending on who you ask, two were in the 90 range) in their respective class is all that more impressive.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Thanks for not kicking me off of your site
He has run it in the ground. No one gets a decade to restore a program. We can debate the time frame but not the results we were the worst team in the B1G Keady’s last year and Painters first in two years we finished second and Matt P. has had us in the tourney every year since his first. Why do IU fans settle for this I agree with those that say Clappy staying is good for Purdue . Just don’t get why you keep him.Props to AJ he gives as good as he gets I went on his site and posted about 2012 recruits and as much as he disagree’s with me he left it up.
by oldboiler52 on Jan 20, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
They keep him for a number of reasons.
1. Program stability. It looks terrible if you keep firing coaches, for both other coaching candidates and also recruits. 2 Why not give him time to see what he can do with his recruits? I’m guessing next year is his best recruiting class in his career, including the Wade year. Let it play out and see what he can do. If he doesn’t do anything, then he will be on the hot seat. 3. As AJ has stated before, they have far exceeded expectations this year. Say what you want about the previous 3 years, but he has done a good job coaching this year.
Bottom line is that if the schools were reversed and we were in their exact situation, we would not want to fire Crean already. Also, the situations with Crean’s first couple years and Painter’s first couple years ARE NOT the same. No matter how much you think they are, they are totally different. Crean was put in a much tougher position. He was under the microscope with the NCAA and the fanbase. He had major violations. He had NO players to work with. I’m not saying I want Crean over Painter at all, or that Crean is a better coach. All I’m saying is that once you put the bias aside, it’s a different situation than you think.
I understand Crean and Painter inherited different programs
…and cannot be compared just by W-L record in the first 3 yrs.
He was under the microscope with the NCAA and the fanbase. He had major violations.
But I don’t understand the “under microscope” argument. Shouldn’t EVERY coach not violate NCAA rules anyway? Shouldn’t EVERY coach act as if they are under the microscope by NCAA and behave accordingly? As for under the microscope by the fanbase, I suppose when you make that kind of money you are subject to scrutiny, and Crean made A LOT more than Painter until Paintergate, so in a way, that’s what you would expect.
OK OK, I get it, Crean is IU's savior who rescues IU from the ashes
So I’ll support you to reward the guy and keep him at Bloomingon for the next 30 yrs.
Nice work, oldboiler52
Not only are you good with recruits, now you are getting into numbers, good job :-)
it was actually hard to vote.
I want to say Crean but I don’t think it could be Crean because who’s rating him that high in the first place?
question
Not to defend Thad Matta or Tom Crean, but why are some coaches dismissed as overrated or not good coaches on the basis that they’re “only good recruiters”? Recruiting is not just a facet of the job, it’s the most important one. All of us here probably agree that Gene Keady was a great Xs and Os coach. But look what happened to his teams late in his career when he no longer had the energy to recruit? Not a single 20-win season in his last five season. It’s no secret that you can get pretty far in the college game on recruiting alone.
http://therailroadtie.com/
Boiler up!
True, recruiting is important
But when we talk about good or bad COACHES, we mainly refer to their COACHING ability. And coaching is to make players better, or make the team better as a whole. That’s why the two most common measuring sticks (albeit with lots of flaws and far from perfect) are 1) how do the players improve year-over-year, and 2) how well do the team perform compared to expectation in deciding COY.
Coz in the professional realm, that job is somewhat separate. You have the executives who sign players and deal with contracts and personnel issue, and then you have the coaches who mostly just focus on coaching (Again, generalization here, not always the case).
if we're going by those two metrics
Will Sheehey, Jordan Hulls and Victor Oladipo ruin your argument that Crean is the worst. And IU’s performance well above expectations to date contributes to shooting down the haters.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Pls clarify
ruin your argument that Crean is the worst
When did I ever say Crean is the worst?
IU’s performance well above expectations to date
In what context? Are you talking about IU during Crean’s tenure? Or IU this season? Or are you talking about IU’s B1G record (an underwhelming that 3-4 is actually below many’s expectation for IU)? If you are just referring to beating UK and O$U, then I agree it is well above expectation.
other's were implying worst (not you specifically, but Purdue fans in general)
In what context: Crean’s tenure and this season. IU is currently at 15-4. The preseason expectations were 19-20 wins. 21 wins would have been considered an outstanding season and if you offered most IU fans 21 wins automatically and not have to play the season we would have taken that deal.
Their predicted conference record in the pre-season at this point in the third toughest schedule in conference to date was 3-4. Wins at Penn State and Nebraska with maybe a win against Minnesota and losses to OSU x2, Michigan State and against Michigan. Indiana won some of the games they shouldn’t have and lost some they shouldn’t to still be right in line with that predicted 3-4 record. They are currently still favored in all but 2 games (@Wisconsin and @Purdue) and on pace to reach the 8-10/9-9 record in conference that was expected of them. In fact, with preseason expectations, Indiana is 4 games better at this point than most fans would have said. 11-8 was the projection at this point in the season with 7-8 wins left on the schedule.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
"...we would have taken that deal"
And thus is the problem with IU’s fan base. You would much rather talk about your undefeated season and point to your five banners instead of witness a team get there with an amazing work ethic and a determination for success. You make your deal with the devil for a 21 win record, but I’ll choose to cheer on my Boilers and be apart of their experience, whether good or bad. Because with a coach like Painter, I believe it is only a matter of time.
Say what? That was not even close to what he meant and you know it.
He was merely pointing out that 21 wins is an outstanding season for IU considering where they were last year/at the start of the year. He didn’t LITERALLY mean he didn’t want to watch the games and just add the win to IU’s total.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Jan 19, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
You are lost
What do you think they the IU fans have been doing the last 3 years? Showing up 15,000 strong backing a very bad team. Watching it build with AMAZING WORK ETHIC AND DETERMINATION FOR SUCCESS. Choosing to CHEER ON THEIR HOOSIERS AND BE APART OF THE EXPERIENCE, WHEATHER GOOD OR BAD……And if Purdue had the last undeated team and 5 banners their fan base would be proud off that….Getfkin real
SHIT!
whether! I meant whether!! I took the wrong half of your hybrid word and grammar nazi’d myself. I’m an idiot.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
you make one little joke
and every one gets vary serious quiet quicklly. and i used the correct forum of the word weather. just look. But seriously, I know that IU has an amazing fan base. 90% of my extended family making up approximately 91% of their fan base (again, approximate). I just had to give Painter the respect he deserves by putting in my two sense :)
I can only imagine how white your face got when you realized your mistake
Reaction images? I got 'em
Senior All-American Alto Sax
This post makes no sense
at all. I can only hope you were drunk when you wrote it.
Crean Ahead of Schedule?
Do seriously believe that when Crean interviewed them for the IU job, he said his goal was to go 8-46 in the Big Ten his first 3 years?
IU has lost Big Ten games from: turnovers, lack of defense, poor play down the stretch.
Crean is Mike Davis-like but a better recruiter. How long does that last if IU doesn’t dance?
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
he started with 1 player in the system
and a month before signing day. To expect him to be winning championships or even competing on the national scale before this year is asinine. His best and practically first recruiting class, which the star player of broke three years in a row, are now only juniors. It is funny how much higher Purdue’s fans expectations of Crean are than IU’s fans.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
We Love Crean
Aside from gathering good players from Indiana (esp Zeller), Purdue fans would be more than thrilled to see Crean limp along for another 5-8 years.
We are just sick of hearing about “what a great coach” he is, with zero Big Ten evidence to back it up.
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
haters gonna hate
but I imagine you’ll be singing a different tune come the end of the season. How shitty of coach is Matt Painter if he loses to the terrible Hoosiers in two weeks or in March?
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Not Likely
Purdue fans are anything but fickle.
We kept Gene Keady (for 20+ yrs) well past his prime, despite the fact he never made th final 4, because we liked how he did it with players others didn’t want, and with grit, determination and courage.
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Shut up.... you know most of us will go crazy after an IU loss
Especially if Painter gets outcoached by a “bad” Tom Crean coach. Regardless of how much you love the Purdue way… Mr. Crean has at least something Tangible…a FF appearance. Yeah he had the likes of Wade, Diener, and Novak helping him get there… Painter can’t say that.
To your call once more we rally...
Gene
screwed us by hanging on too long
His “way” is arguable
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 20, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Had to go with Crean
And it probably isn’t even his fault.
The media built him up pretty high when IU started winning this year. He hasn’t fully lived up to the hype (there were comments about giving him national coach of the year).
I don’t think Crean himself thinks he’s a good of a coach as the media was reporting, but based on how IU has faltered, and how he was regarded, I’d have to say at this moment, it would be him.
At the end of the year, that could change, however. If IU rights itself and has mild tourney success, they would have ended a little above where they were expected.
In that case, I’d look to see where Weber ended up this year. I feel like Illinois is getting some attention right now mostly because they didn’t play last week and win against OSU. I think he’ll peter out and drop before IU does, personally.
gotta admit
at 15-1 he was the favorite for coach of the year. Part of that had to do with Indiana playing above its abilities (which suggests good coaching) and another part with an easy non-conference schedule.
As for the expectations part, most had Indiana as a bubble team at best to begin the year. They could win only 4 games from here on out and meet pre-season expectations. IU is playing with house money this year, they have no excuses next.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Indiana as a bubble team at best
This I can agree with. Beating KY however, allows 8-10 to get you in the dance.
7-9 and you will get a tournament home game, for the NIT.
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
A bubble team?
They were slotted at a 3 seed in this past week’s Braketology. The B1G is going to get a lot of teams into the tourney this year. Very likely 8. Could even be 9.
The only teams that have next to no chances are :
PSU
Nebraska
Iowa
just becuase their non-conference records were so bad.
A bubble team at best?
I guess that leaves us out. They have a much better resume than us.
But the folks in Bloomington were expecting a title with Baby Jesus
they would have ended a little above where they were expected
How do you go above that? ;-)
no one was expecting that this year
nor next year. Although with the flashes of brilliance the team has shown at points this season, it is feasible to expect a run to an Elite Eight or so and NC contention in 2013 if Zeller sticks around.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
To some extent, yes IU fans are.
Maybe not you, but look at the hashtag themovement on twitter… it almost sounds like brainwashing drones. RAISE THE BANNER!
by PurdueEnginerd on Jan 19, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
The Movement is supposed to be what brings them back to greatness
not what makes them instantly national champions. Go check the lowest common denominators of IU fans on the Rivals free board and only a handful of idiots expect more than one kid from next year’s class to even start. Your bias is projecting an expectation onto the Hoosiers than no sane Hoosier fan actually has. The Movement is the end of the beginning, nothing more.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Sane Hoosier fan
other than you, thats the biggest problem with your agrument. But trust me i have heard a ton of shit from IU friends after UK and OSU but now that they lost to minny and nebraska they have tempered back down.
by jack'sIUdisdain on Jan 20, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Still not seeing where this describes how IU lost last night
listing winning percentages is far from an in depth analysis in the quality of coaches. Also, for a little bit of fun. Indiana has played the third hardest conference schedule to date. Purdue? The 11th. Don’t start counting your chickens before they hatch. Purdue is going to have to actually play a top team in the conference soon.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Last I looked Illinois was the top
I love the way you defend your team.But all I was saying is its the same four teams year in and year out based on that it was no wonder IU has started their slide.And Creans record is over 13 years not just 3. Not picking on your team more worried about Thad and Izzo .
Tom Crean's record before being thrown into a complete rebuild at IU?
188-93 (.669). That includes taking a mid-major in Marquette to a top 6 finish in the nation’s top 3 toughest conference, the Big East.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Never won C-USA Title
Even coaching in a mid-major conference, he never won conference title
despite the fact he had one of the 5 best players in the world (D-Wade).
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
that is not true
he won the regular season in C-USA in 2003. Coach of the year in 2002 and 2003 and the Clair Bee Coach of the Year national award in ’03 as well. He won that last one sandwiched in between Bob Knight and Mike Krzyzewski.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Stand Corrected - 2003 C-USA champs
Sorry, I was thinking about C-USA tnmt that year, where the lost 1st round.
Lived near Milwaukee and had season tickets for Marquette. D-Wade was god.
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Illinois wanted him badly
Illinois was dying to steal him from Marquette, and had to settle for Weber.
Just think, Illinois could be underachieving with Crean, instead of doing it with Weber.
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'm kind of surprised they've hung onto him for this long
Reaction images? I got 'em
Senior All-American Alto Sax
You are your record
Throw out Painters first year and he is up with Thad but he is his record all 8 years.
I'd love to see Matt Painter try and compete in the Big Ten
with 5 freshmen and 6 walk-ons, or the year after that with 6 freshmen, 4 sophomores and 3 walk-ons. Or the year after that with 2 freshmen, 6 sophomores, 3 juniors and 2 walk-ons.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
3rd Year?
Were those Intramural players last year? Honestly, at times they played like it.
Talent is one thing, but IU lost lots of games with ignorant basketball, not because they could jump to get their head above the rim.
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
they lost lots of game with youth and inexperience
of the top 8 players in minutes played only three player were juniors or older. Of the five remaining underclassmen, 2 played with/missed time with significant injuries and the most gifted of the group ended his season halfway through.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Baby Boilers?
Are you talking about IU last year, or the Baby Boilers their freshman yr?
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
those Baby Boilers had 4 top 75 recruits
and five upperclassmen. Not the same thing.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
last year's IU team
excluding Maurice Creek, had 1 top 75 recruit and 5 upperclassmen.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Intramural Teams
Any truth to the rumor going around WL, that the IU intramural champs beat Crean’s teams, 2 out the last 3 years?
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
any truth you guys have designed a new dance and song
to show how much you don’t care about IU? The last one is getting stale and needs an update.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Ya. says the IU guy on the Purdue blog...;)
by PurdueEnginerd on Jan 19, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
the democrats won't show up to work to make a quorum!
I HAVE NOTHING TO DO ALL DAY.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
and I know Purdue sites are some of the best sites
for discussing IU. Especially while most Hoosiers fans are still sleeping on last night’s ingestion of bleach to make the memories die.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
You'd think they'd have a tolerance built up after all drinking so much as kids...
They never were good at noticing those skull labels…
/I keed, I keed
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Jan 19, 2012 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
Painter can Coach
We over analyze at times, but the truth is there are few coaches better at making the pieces he gets, fit together, than Matt Painter. Must have learned that from Keady. The best news is, that as a recruiter he is a notch above Keady. I don’t see us relying on JUCO kids and scraps (Jim Rowinski, I think was a walk-on) for a long time to come.
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
hey Carl Landry was a hell of a JuCo scrap!
there is no doubt Painter can coach.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I think Painter said Landry was "allergic to work"
So while Landry had talent obviously, I think Painter developed it.
I like to think Painter’s first full year showed he could put together a competitive team that had the pride not to get blown out. They just got gassed down the stretch. (2005-2006) … With Landry and Teague down he had a lot of players thrown into the fire, and they really contributed the next year.
by Beavis Beefcake on Jan 19, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
so when faced with adversity but still getting minor contributions out of a second team All Conference player
Painter’s Boilers cruised to 16 wins.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Guess I'm a bit confused here
I’m not sure about the point you’re making…yes, 9-19 and 3-13 in conference was not good. But this was from a team that was bad out of conference, who lost Landry and Teague from a 7-21 team. I think they played Charles Davis, a tight end on the football team, for stretches. They trailed 58-23 at Florida State in the B10/ACC challenge.
Nate Minnoy tore an ACL at Northwestern in the Big Ten opener, Korey Spates was booted from the team for disciplinary reasons a couple games later…Marcus White played only a few games before leaving, and Chris Lutz was likely physically overmatched.
Despite this in conference turbulence, the team improved a lot from a team I personally saw get mauled at Loyola of Chicago. Yeah, getting Landry/Teague back helped flip 9-19 to 21-11…but Painter clearly established how he was going to do things and didn’t mind possibly sacrificing a relatively meaningless win or two for the long term.
I know IU had their own problems with getting players on board, but that 2005-2006 Purdue team could’ve outright stunk. The only all-big ten player was Matt Keefer, and he was honorable mention.
Crean had his own personnel problems but I’d be interested to see what you saw in the post-Sampson era where Crean got a lot out of his players, or if you had moments when you realized he was going to turn the corner. Mine came when I noticed there were no losses even close to the @FSU blowout once the year ended.
by Beavis Beefcake on Jan 20, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Landry was a JUCO kid, not a scrap
But it is hard to build/re-build with JOCO guys every yr/2 years.
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Pritchard is a scrap?
I do think Crean has improved him. He doesn’t foul out in 3 minutes anymore.
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
marquette was all d.wade...
He failed as a coach if you subtract those years. However, I do give him credit for landing D. Wade.
Boiler Up! Hammer Down!
by JuJuan some Moore? on Jan 19, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Wade played 2 years at Marquette
Tom Crean coached there for nearly a decade. Without Wade, Crean was 135-80 which is still good for .628 winning percentage while making a transfer from mid-major to major conference play.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
While i think the "failed as a coach" part isnt true
Crean was not all that impressive otherwise. A 63% winning percentage is nothing to gloat about or praise. D Wade was Crean’s claim to fame just like Weber’s is going to the title game with Bill Self’s players. The jury is still out on whether or not both can show that level of success again.
I'd like to have seen Matt Painter try and show major success
while taking Southern Illinois from MVC to the Big East. The fact that he won 20 games for three straight years in major conference play says something.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
OK OK, I get it, Crean is great
So let’s keep him as IU coach for the next 30 yrs, OK? Can we just agree on that? I for one would like to see that.
Painter took Purdue from less than 10 win seasons
To 5 straight 20+ win seasons, several sweet sixteens, a conference championship, etc. He did that in his secind year. His third year he started a bunch of freshman and sophomores and still won 20+ games. He still has to prove he can go the distance in march but I believe he can once he get some real depth on his team. Crean needed a NBA all-star to carry him to the Final Four. Ever since Wade left Crean has been successful, but nothing worth gloating about.
yeah Dwyane Wade was recruited by THREE schools
THREE. So Crean gets no credit for who Wade is or was in college. Makes sense. Matt Painter developmental god for having Carl Landry play as well as he did under Keady, but Tom Crean is clueless because D-Wade turns out to be a pretty damn good ball player. Makes sense.
His third year, the average recruit ranking for those starters? 96.2, with Chris Kramer being given a default 200 ranking for not being in the rankings. Tom Crean in his third year? The average ranking was 134. Watford at 41, Hulls at 107, Jones at 142 and Pritchard/Rivers unranked so given a default 200. Yeah sure doesn’t look like the same situation to me.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
All True
But the good news is, Purdue only plays Wisky and OSU once each.
That means our conference SOS will never be highest.
Also good news, from what I saw last night:
We don’t play Cornhuskers in Lincoln.
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Boileresque
Xavier and Butler were aberrations. That’s why they are talked about.
Boileresque is Chris Kramer blocking someone’s attempt at a buzzer beater, or E. Moore taking over @ MSU.
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Crean is Good
Truth is, over the long haul Crean is good for Purdue.
It is just a little annoying to see the spotlight go where it isn’t earned.
I guess a lifetime of being a Purdue fan should make me more tolerant.
Biggest fear? Crean crapping the bed, and IU hiring Butler’s coach
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Oh no, that'll be scary
Crean at IU 4ever! Crean at IU 4ever!
Nightmare Scenario
Brad Stevens coaching incoming IU talent. I might have to switch allegiances?
No, that is not possible, I hate the color crimson.
We have 2 things to hope for:
Cody Zeller taking up the NBA on his sure-thing Lottery pick.
or Crean Sticking around, and making sure Zeller only touches it 10X/game
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Hey now!
Man, where’s that Kelsey Barlow “choke” picture when we need it? The one we all say is not indicative of the values we want Purdue basketball to embrace?
:D
by Beavis Beefcake on Jan 19, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Would Make a great Poster
Not very Boileresque however
by Boilers2Indy on Jan 19, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
JustAJ
I think you’ve posted more comments in this thread than your entire game thread on your site got last night.
Everyone should believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer.....
I appreciate JustAJ's input.
He’s level headed, and we need some non-biased opinions over here.
most of us were either weeping silently to ourselves
or like me had gone to work out to try and ride ourselves of the anger. It instead gave me an adrenaline rush and I got more angry.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Too bad I dunno how to post pix
It instead gave me an adrenaline rush and I got more angry.
Otherwise I’ll get you a Hulk pix ;-)
Anyway, I always appreciate your differing opinion. As someone said, you never learn from ppl who agree with you.
occasionally I learn how dumb I sound from people who agree with me
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Butler Game
My legs were shaking out of Conseco (at the time) because I was so angry. It also didn’t help that I had to hear all the other fans laughing and cheering after the loss.
My father said to me after the game “I’m never going to one of these again.” LOL
Sigh....traffic trolling is the least valid of all invalid arguements.
Seriously, CQ isn’t a bad site apart from the obvious, and traffic comments are just cheap shots, and pretty personal IMO. Be proud of our community here, but don’t denigrate something that AJ and John have put a lot of quality hard work into.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Jan 19, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
doesn't bother me
I love the loyal commentors we do have and even the occasional troll so I can bust out the banhammer (see Kentucky fans). Our traffic is greatly improved over the last year. Soon we’ll be nipping at H&R’s heels for visits!
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
You should do this for Big Ten wins
Excluding Doc Sadler, Fran McCaffery, and Pat Chambers.
The top would probably be the same except Tubby Smith would be bumped down.
Reaction images? I got 'em
Senior All-American Alto Sax
I had a serious WTF moment on Doc Sadler.
/Still isn’t used to Nebraska
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Jan 19, 2012 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
+1
I will always welcome AJ’s contribution. It’s nice to have a reasonable opinion from an unbiased source every once in a while.
Reaction images? I got 'em
Senior All-American Alto Sax
Reasonable, yes; unbiased, hardly
It’s nice to have a reasonable opinion from an unbiased source every once in a while.
AJ is clearly biased, but then so are everyone of us here, just biased the other way. It’s nice to have some balance. It’ll be extremely boring if everyone says the same thing and agrees to everything.
not biased
just passionate enough to care until I find sources that show I’m right. :-)
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
If one thing I've learned as a Quant
is that you can easily back any story with numbers to support your argument. Some does it skillfully, some does it terribly. In a way, my job is to tell which is which.
Same mistakes as always
I know I am probably a little biased (along with others on this post), but you cannot help but notice that IU has been making the same mistakes ever since Crean has been there. Granted the first year there was a lot of growing pains and they were extremely young, but that also has to do with the will and leadership of the players. If you can’t get your team to adjust, how do you expect to be able to start winning on the road in conference. There is a reason that IU has only won in two different buildings (in conference play) since Crean has been at the helm.
Well, I hate to say it
But very soon IU will win another B1G road game that is not PSU. Book it.
(But let’s just make sure it isn’t Mackey, that’ll make me really, really, really upset)
Why can't we all just accept facts
Crean has proven he’s not a great coach, but fairly decent at recruiting. Painter seems to be a pretty decent recruiter as well, and I would give him the slight nod over Crean for one simple fact… Painter is at Purdue and Crean has the “history and banners” of IU on his side. When it comes to coaching though, Painter wins hands down. A coach isn’t a father figure or a friend… he is a coach. If he needs to rip your ass, he will (i.e. AJ when he ran his mouth to Rob a few games back). He coaches up talent that isn’t “off the charts” and makes them great players (i.e. the first name that comes to mind is Chris Kramer). Crean stands on the sideline and claps his hands. Yes, that is a common joke we Purdue fans have for Crean, but where there is smoke, there is often fire.
My personal vote actually went to Thad Matta. OSU and everything/everyone associated with them is the poster child for “overrated.” Yes he has won Big Ten titles, but let’s be honest… how in the hell does a football school, OSU no less, get recruits like they do? I still maintain there is something shady going on there just like in the football world in Columbus. You give OSU a true team without the aspects I view as shady… OSU is average at best.
Buckeye by birth, but BOILERMAKER by the grace of God!
Decent recruiter doesn't describe it
How do you get Cody Zeller, a guy that had a wide-open path to North Carolina, to go to IU, where they have been at the bottom of the Big Ten for three years?
North Carolina has banners, too, and two of them have come in the last decade.
He’s a good recruiter.
Reaction images? I got 'em
Senior All-American Alto Sax
but Purdue has been a more talented team by every metric since Crean has been at IU
so… there really is no evidence statistically that Crean can’t do the same with the same talent. Except you know that Final Four that everyone discounts because he had a kid that got zero recognition out of high school turn out to be really good.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I'm sorry
I don’t know how Bruce Weber is not easily considered the most over-rated coach in the league. That progam always has talent, and they ALWAYS under-acheive. He’s is the proto-type of a coach who does just enough not to get canned, but never, ever is going to take a team beyond mediocrity.
Because he made it to a Final Four?
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
"We have the Cannon, the Bucket, the Little Caesar's Bowl trophies, and I'm pretty sure the Nation's Best Kick-Off Team Trophy as well to put in our trophy case" --Purdue Coach Danny Hope
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 20, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
but so did Crean?
but we can’t count that as a tribute to him right?
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
We were talking about Weber.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
"We have the Cannon, the Bucket, the Little Caesar's Bowl trophies, and I'm pretty sure the Nation's Best Kick-Off Team Trophy as well to put in our trophy case" --Purdue Coach Danny Hope
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 21, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
yeah I got that
what I didn’t get was the sarcasm until I read it again
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
So did Mike Davis
Not that difficult to do when you walk into a situation where the players and system are already in place.
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