2012 Recruits Can it get better than these 4
by oldboiler52 on Jan 15, 2012 7:05 PM EST
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Lets start with AJ Hammons since his minutes were cut he has come to play the kid does all the dirty work for Oakhill he can score when ever he wants.He lets the others on this team throw it up.He rebounds and blocks shot and defends.What that means for Purdue he will start and our shooters can have a little more freedom to create.Funny thing about AJ all the young recruits seem to follow him I'm talking about 2014 and 2015 recruits you gotta love that.
Rapheal Davis he is just a stud will play he is smart understands where the passing lanes are he can get his shot when ever he wants the fact Lalumiere has 10 div 1 players and they blowout whom ever they play stops his numbers from being staggering he will come in and force his way on the court.I see him at 2 but he can play down low and even some at the point.This kid is strong and i'll say it again SMART.Lalu is now 17-2 having won 3 games in 2 days.
Jay Simpson he gets better every time I see him in the 3 games I watched of him this week he was the best player on the court.Where has all this talent been hiding he was shooting and making 3's blocking shots and rebounding. If he were to come in and play like he did this week no doubt he would start.He runs the court well can handle the rock and is a solid passer.All this from a kid who is a legit 6'10 props to Painter he found that diamond in the ruff.I see him inserted in the 4 and Donnie hale backing him up.
Ronnie Johnson the kid can play I saw an interview where he said he picked Purdue over ILL. because with lewjack leaving he would have a chance to start.That won't happen until he gets back to playing the way he was when Painter recruited him defense he has let that side of his game go. He is a very athletic kid but he forces up shots while playing selfish basketball. I was so impressed with him last year and he had a strong summer.If you look at box scores and see him scoring 25 plus on the surface he's having a great year.I have seen him play several times this year and for me I'd have to say he won't play. Selfish point guards who don't defend and believe me he does not defend will not see the court. He is smart and Terone can surely get to him but based on what I have seen he wont play.Sorry I hate to be negative but I love Defense.
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AJ
I’m very excited to see Hammons come to Purdue. It will be awesome to have a legitimate sized B1G center, that’s also really good on defense.
Funny how the knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seats.
To be fair
RJ pretty much is the heart of that NC team. As he goes, they go. They have several other D1 talents on their team…but he’s definitely the best right now. I doubt he will be nearly as selfish coming into Purdue next year. I see him getting lots of minutes if not starting.
Exactly
if he has to sit cause of fouls theyre screwed
by jack'sIUdisdain on Jan 20, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
No way!
Two at most, but I see only one, and that is Hammons.
Except for the Baby Boilers when our cupboard was empty and the Class of 2007 was REALLY good, Painter doesn’t start frosh much. When he does, it is usually because of a position need (e.g. PG or the 5 spot), so that leaves Hammons and RJ to be the only ones with a realistic shot.
Jay Simpson is likely to be redshirt. Sorry, I know ppl won’t like it, but that’s the Painter way. He gets paid $2.3M and he is in charge.
Rapheal can be a stud. But I just don’t see him start ahead of AJ, TJ, Barlow and Byrd. I still expect a strong frosh season for him.
RJ might get a start at the point, but right now, my best guess is TJ or Barlow to start at the point in 2012.
The big starting lineup: Hammons, Lawson, Byrd, AJ (or TJ), Barlow
The small starting lineup: Hammons, Byrd, Barlow, AJ, TJ
this
your 2012 class is no baby boilers. In the long run they’ll be pretty darn good, but JJ, Etwaun, Hummel and Martin all would have likely started if you injected them into next year’s team as freshmen. JJ would have been the least ready but like Hammons, he’s a post player on a team that badly needs one.
Too often people expect freshmen to come in and be major contributors right away (glares over at IU fans). The reality is that a less talented upperclassmen is usually more valuable than a raw but talented freshman. Only top 25 guys should really be expected to step in and be Big Men on Campus immediately.
I think your big starting lineup is right on. Except I could even see Carroll getting the start if he continues to progress and split time with Hammons as he develops. Might see Hammons starting by B1G season, but the way TC has shown he’s capable recently, him and Marcius will likely get the first crack at the lineup in non-conference play.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Start?
At the beginning of the season, or the end? AJ is the only one I see taking over a starting position by the end of the year because we are in extreme need of a 5. However, I think the rest of them will play (Simpson is the only one I see as a possible redshirt).
Starting 5 for next season:
1 Kelsey Barlow
2 Terone Johnson
3 DJ Byrd
4 Jacob Lawson
5 Sandi Marcius
First off the bench:
1 Ronnie Johnson
2 Anthony Johnson
3 Rapheal Davis
4 Donnie Hale
5 AJ Hammons
The Freshmen as second string is dependent on their defensive abilities coming in. AJ is the only one I see overcoming deficiencies in D just because of his size. If Ronnie and Rapheal aren’t up on their D look for Carroll and Hart to get more minutes with Anthony Johnson moving to the point. It will be interesting to see how things play out, and I am excited about the talent coming in and how it will mix with what we already have! Boiler Up! And Keep Grindin’!!!
Boiler Up! Hammer Down!
by JuJuan some Moore? on Jan 15, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
No Way
if thats our starting 5 next year, then everyone better start getting prepared for a butt smacking every night. we wont be able to produce any points with that 5! lawson sandi and kelsey are not legitimate scorers!
Kelsey is getting there
But yeah, Sandi and Lawson are limited.
Well, I don’t necessarily agree with the lineup, but if anything we’ve learned about Painter, he doesn’t care much about not able to score as long as he can ensure the other team is not scoring.
And to be fair, Sandi has been okay on the roughly half dozen post touches he's gotten.
He doesn’t necessarily have to score to have the post touch be effective. Look at OSU. They get Sullinger touches, even just to have him pass back out. Post touches move the D, free up shooters, create passing lanes. Sandi can do that, or even TC.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Jan 19, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
There's a difference
When you are Sullinger or Zeller, by virtue of touching the ball down low the defense HAS TO react or else it’ll be a high percentage basket. When you are Sandi or TC, until you can prove that you can score one-on-one down low, the defense is not going to react, and it won’t open up shooters.
I disagree. Even if you don't draw a double, the passing angles it opens up are myriad.
To me, good interior passing is the sweetest play in basketball, like when a posted-up 5 drops a little bounce pass across the lane to a slashing 3. The defense has to respect the outlet if not the 1-on-1 scoring. It also forces defenses to stay home on shooters because a good outlet from the lane can go to almost anywhere around the arc, which creates off-the-ball cutting lanes for guys like LewJack and Barlow who can turn the corner and accept a pass from a big.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Jan 19, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree with your disagree
You are describing good passing big men a la Brad Miller. Sure, if Brad is on our team, any time he doesn’t touch the ball is a wasted possession b/c he can either score or pass to a slashing wing or an open jumper shooter as you describe.
But we are talking about Sandi and TC here!!! Do you know their per minute TO is way off the chart? Passing (or holding onto the ball) is not their strength. Low post one-on-one is not their strength (definitely not for TC; Sandi has shown flashes but he has too few opportunities to prove he can get it done).
You need to play to the players’ strength, not your idealized version of what a big men should do. TC can knock off jumpers, and he has shown he can hustle and get some boards. Sandi is best when he sets picks for teammates, and I think we should run more pick-and-roll for him b/c that is the only way for him to score. That’s it. Stick to what they are good at and capable of, and don’t ask them to do too much. Then, and only then, we might have a chance to succeed.
My point is that passing from the post is easier even for TC/Sandi.
It doesn’t have to be a great-passing big for it to be better than the alternative, which is Sandi catching it at the top of the key after a ball screen and having nothing useful at all to do with it. Even a one-touch pass as part of a ball rotation FORCES the defense to react. Even Sandi and TC can catch and pass as they are just standing on the block. they don’t have to do more than that to create the angles I’m after.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Jan 20, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely not
Trust me, you don’t want Sandi or TC to touch the ball or pass the ball. Sandi has 13 TOs this season. That doesn’t sound a lot, but what if I tell you Robbie only has 16, Ryno has 12 and Byrd has 9, and they all play multiple times the minutes as Sandi (e.g. Robbie plays more than 4x the minutes than Sandi, and when Robbie is on the floor, sometimes he needs to bring the ball up too).
Guys like Sandi is great if it is touch and shoot. Get him to pick-and-roll. He sets good picks, and if he rolls, it’s one touch and shoot. That’s good basketball and that’s smart basketball. If you put the ball in his hand for anything else, you are asking for trouble.
I don’t know if you remember the Miami game. Miami’s big man was injured, and Painter made an emphasis to go down low. Sandi was the starter, scored on one possession, got fouled in another, and by then, the Miami defense figured him out and promptly stole the ball from his blindside. I can swear I saw it coming all along. And that’s pretty much it for Sandi for the night. He was roaring after the first basket, but his stat was non-existent. Just check back the play-by-play and you know what I am talking about. If the MSU frontline can shut down Zeller, they’ll have absolutely no problem shutting down Sandi. Pls, pls for God’s sake don’t throw Sandi into the wolves when he is not ready.
We need 1 big man on the court that can
create his own shot. Lawson, Carrol, and Marcius can not create a good shot. That’s why I wonder if Hammons and/or Simpson can create, that might make more valuable because they bring something different to the court.
maybe a chance
this might just be me, but i feel like hale is gonna get alot of minutes next year. or at least i feel like he should get some playing time. IMO i feel like he’s more of a scoring threat than lawson. and hes had this whole season and this offseason coming up to get stronger and improve his game.
by jbennett28 on Jan 16, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oldboiler52
Thx for sharing and I very much appreciate your analysis. However, be careful, your words are now permanent in the archive and might come back to haunt you if say Simpson becomes another Bade or Carroll. It happens. I’ve been reading back the reviews on Bade and Carroll and when they were high school seniors the reviews were mostly very up beat and positive about how well they will fit in in Painter’s motion offense and how tough they are (esp Bade being an ex-football player and coming from the same high school as JJ).
Having said that, I encourage you to keep it up. In terms of knowing the recruits, I think you are the best here and know A LOT more than I do. And I appreciate people who have the guts to call it the way they see it and stand by their statement, which is certainly who you are and have always been as far as I see it here. The ones I least admire are those who make empty statements and didn’t man up to back up their words when I challenge and expose him naked with facts and numbers. Nice job, thx.
I am just a fan
Hell I don’t know much I just watch alot and research things I want to know about.Jackson Brunner knows as much or more than I as do you Charles and many others on here. It’s just the few whom don’t have the time to research as much as I that I post for.But I think Simpson starts for us no way he redshirts he’s 6’10 and he’s ready with no one proven at the 4 he won’t redshirt.As far as my comments being permanent oh CRAP thats all I need.
Hale and Lawson aren't proven, but they'll compete for the starting gig
with no one proven at the 4
One advantage Hale has over Simpson is that he has 2 yrs his senior, and both Hale and Lawson understand Painter’s philosophy and needs and were competing hard against elite B1G players day in and day out for a year. I think if Simpson starts over Hale and Lawson it speaks less of Simpson’s greatness but the ineptitude of Hale and Lawson, and hence I don’t see it happen.
Oldboiler, do you know anything about Willis?
I just saw on twitter that he’s committing at 4 p.m. Friday, and most seem to think he’ll commit to UK, although I’ve seen one analyst say that Purdue would be the best fit for him.
Doesn't matter what analyst says
I too think Purdue would be best fit for him. And I say so with Dawson (best fit in terms of maximizing his talent) and to a lesser degree Harris too (best fit in terms of addressing what he values most when he talks about his recruiting decisions). I still think my analysis is as good as anyone out there, but then apparently it doesn’t matter a shit.
I haven't heard anything at all
But my (biased) analysis is that if he picks now, he might as well pick Purdue. This way, he can say, “I am picking now (instead of the fall which I once said I would) b/c I realize what a big mistake I’ve made in the summer and I wanted to fix it and do the right thing. Deep inside I love to be a Boilermaker because I want to work hard, and I’ve been to their practice and I know Coach Painter requires 200% of effort every time and that’s what I want.”
Anyway, here’s my analysis to Willis, "Our team in 2013 is perfect for you because you are stepping into a rising tide situation. At UK, you will just be ‘one of the many’ and not even the best. Given that you are not a Top 5 ‘bluest of the blue’ blue chip, the fans really don’t get excited. Coach Cal doesn’t care to develop you as Coach Painter would, and you can’t blame Cal b/c he cares more about the next Rose or Wall.
Louisville is not a good destination either. Coach Pitino has already said he’ll leave in 2017, which means his heart is elsewhere. Coaching isn’t his priority any more and you don’t want a coach who is not giving 100%. By the time you are an upperclassman you’ll have to deal with the transitions and speculations when you should be concentrated in basketball.
Indiana is actually a surprising attractive destination given what they’ve done this year. But first, Cody Zeller might leave after his sophomore year, so IU’s continual success is not guaranteed. That’s minor, compared to your Class of 2013 classmates. Colin Hartman and Devin Davis, plus the new guy from Wisky are all forwards. They are full, and with you, that means 4 forwards in the same class. Don’t you think that’s a little too many?
With Purdue, you already know the recruits well. We have a PG, SG, and a SF, so putting you as the PF is absolutely perfect! You won’t be asked to play down low b/c we already have that covered in Hammons. In fact, we will make you the Durant based on your ability. You are stepping in the perfect situation and have a chance to become legendary and make a big name for yourself with a run to Purdue’s first FF."
I'd disagree on the fans don't get excited for him
in fact, Kentucky fans have been following this one super close, because for once in their fandom they are actually getting a Kentucky guy. The last time there was a major player out of Kentucky in the top 50, let alone UK landing them was Darius Miller in 2008. They all love that dude.
Indiana’s forward class with Willis would likely not be too much at one position. Fischer would play more of a 4/5 role. Davis likely a Branden Dawson type 4/3. Hartman and Willis would be the two competing at a 3/4. However it is true that he would competing with a lot of depth. Theoretically there would be 9-10 guys battling for 4 positions on the court and 3-4 battling fifth. Of course this is assuming Oladipo, Sheehey and Zeller are all still present.
In the end I believe that he’ll choose Kentucky and he’ll be at least getting significant time if not starting from year one. He’s a five star recruit when all is said and done and like every year, the lineup will be wide open due to attrition in 2012.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
5 star....
Kyle Witler is also a 5-star recruit with similar size and skills to Willis and he is not playing a lot of minutes at Kentucky. If 2013 is another great recruiting class for Kentucky, Willis might not see a ton of playing time as he is expecting. Calipari always has a great point guard and a bunch of 6’8 to 6’10 athletic forwards.
Wiltjer is averaging 14 minutes a game
behind no less than 6 guys that will be in the NBA next year. This is by far the deepest Kentucky has been in the Calipari era. They won’t have that kind of depth again for a few years. Wiltjer will likely be the only hold over from the 2011 class. The current 2012 class are 2 one and dones and 2 and done. In 2013, Willis will have to compete for playing time against those in his freshman class, maybe (but not likely) Wiltjer, Jarrod Polson, Ryan Harrow, Willie Cauley and Sam Malone. That’s 5 returning players and his freshmen class. Willis will play at Kentucky, as Wiltjer is the only current known quantity that will play the same position.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Agreed, but
why doesn’t Willis take the wait and see approach. Kentucky’s 2013 class will not fill up for another 12-14 months as Calipari seems to cherry pick the talent every year.
because by taking the scholarship now
he’s in the position to deter other similar prospects from taking his minutes. If he waits it out, Calipari will continue recruiting others to fill his spot. He’s at an advantage going to Kentucky and getting all the time he wants by committing now and making other similar styled recruits second guess Kentucky.
Essentially he’ll be recruited over by waiting (is that possible when there are only 22 high rated prospects? and only 6 of them are similar players?). By committing now he’ll be used as a recruiting tool and not a market competitor.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I agree
Frankly, I don’t care if he picks UK or UL, as long as it isn’t IU. Not b/c I am scared of him at IU, but it’s just such a big slap in the face. The reason he said he decommits from Purdue is b/c all the pressure he got from committing to an out-of-state school. And if he now picks IU over UK and UL, I’ll be VERY pissed.
So as long as he doesn’t pick IU, I say it’s a better day for Purdue basketball anyway. Either we get him (which is unlikely) and that’s great, or we can move on. Fans have been calling for the Sandi and TC to transfer to make room, and I don’t think that’s a fair treatment when we are rewarding someone who doesn’t honor their words. The following quote is what I hate most. It’s like we are begging him to come back after he dumped us once. Come on, we are a respectable program and don’t go so low to beg and grovel and take Derek’s booty call. (Sadly, it is likely true)
"As far as I understand, the Purdue offer is still there," Del Willis said. "All Derek has to do is call and say ‘I want to re-commit to Purdue," and the offer is there. That’s my understanding through the coaching staff there."
I understand the slap in the face thing
In fact that’s the biggest reason I’m interested in his services. No big deal if we don’t get him, but it would be hilarious from my side of the state if we did.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
If u guys sign him
That’ll be the 14th scholly, right?
correct
and we’d likely be completely and totally done for that class. Don’t see more than one person defecting between now and then. Possible, but not likely.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I've seen KY fans straight-up say they don't want him.
Not that that’s smart or necessarily representative, but that faction at the very least exists.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Jan 19, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
I think Purdue
No facts just my gut and it’s what I want.We are clearly the best fit for him.I think he is being forced to say because both Purdue and UK have other recruits who are ready to take his spot.I think I know who will get the scholly if not Willis either way we will be happy.
Does this
I think I know who will get the scholly if not Willis either way we will be happy.
mean Brenton Scott? Or is there some other player I don’t know about?
no more guards
Purdue doesn’t need Brenton Scott. Need another big man. I would assume that if Willis doesn’t pick Purdue and someone leaves the team, Painter will go after another PF like he did with Lawson when Dawson went to mich st. Lawson wasn’t even on the radar until later that recruiting period.
by boilerbacker31 on Jan 17, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
i don't think you know
who will get the scholarship if Willis doesn’t re-commit (which he won’t). As far as I know Alex Foster is the only other guy with a Purdue offer in the 2013 class, and Purdue hasn’t been spending a whole lot of time recruiting him lately. Brenton Scott doesn’t have a Purdue offer, and as solid as I think he’ll be at the next level, I don’t think he’s a good fit for Purdue. Plus, guards aren’t a recruiting priority right now; clearly Painter is looking for 3/4’s. It’ll be interesting to see if he’s able to pick someone up, but gun to my head I say unless someone outstanding expresses interest in Purdue I bet we bank it for 2014, especially considering how much effort Painter has put into recruiting ’14s.
http://therailroadtie.com/
Boiler up!
by therailroadtie on Jan 20, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
I would like to see Painter
not oversign the “best of the rest” in 2013 and go after a great big man in 2014. Illinois and Indiana are looking to have some great 2014 talent at the PF and C positions. We can do without a big man in 2013 as long as we get a good one or two in 2014.
Agree
Don’t oversign just for the sake of getting someone. For all we know, Sandi may turn out good so keep the scholly for 2013.
I'd hope he's looking for 4/5's
clearly Painter is looking for 3/4’s
Terone will get in Ronnie's ear I hope
Or the coaching staff will. Or the seniors will.
Thanks again for these updates. A bit ago I’d never have thought this site could host them—now I’m used to them!
by Beavis Beefcake on Jan 15, 2012 10:58 PM EST reply actions
I'm gonna step in here about Ronnie Johnson.
He shoots 3s all the time because NC doesn’t have very many legitimate scorers besides him. I’m speaking as someone that has watched him play in multiple games for several years. I agree about his defense though, and if that isn’t there Painter won’t start him over Barlow. I would personally love to see Barlow play the 3 more though because it is a more natural position for him, yet sadly we will be thin at PG next year.
by Jackson Brunner on Jan 16, 2012 1:19 AM EST reply actions
this
RJ is in a tough situation where he’s expected to shoulder a lot of the scoring burden. He’s not a scoring PG but in high school he’s fast enough to dissect most high school perimeters. He’s a creator at the next level not a scorer. By his junior to senior year though, like LewJack, he’ll do a lot of both.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I agree
But you can’t sit Byrd we will need his scoring.I expect TJ and Barlow at the point.I understand the scorers mentality but come on Jackson he is looks to score way to much.
Purdue isn't thin
at PG. Barlow is perfect to take over next year and with TJ coming on as of late, Purdue fans are starting to see why he was so successful in high school. He can take it to the rack and as of late, starting to hit his 3’s. Free throws are a concern, but hopefully he’ll fix that real soon.
by boilerbacker31 on Jan 17, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
LOVE TJs game
Just needs to be a little more consistent, and he is getting there. He will be a beast by tourny time. Mark my words.
Summer Tour
Can the new talent play in a summer tour with the team “that is left”? 6-10 games would really help integrate all this new talent. And no matter how many wins the exposure and integration would be critical for next year.
freshmen are available to their college teams the day after they officially graduate
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
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