Wisconsin Snaps Its Mackey Hex
by BoilerTMill on Jan 13, 2012 8:20 AM EST
in Men's Basketball
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PrintIf there is one thing everyone is quickly learning this Big Ten season it is that confidence means nothing and history means nothing. Look at our last four games. After trouncing Illinois in the second half and playing a pretty solid game at Minnesota we have followed those games with pretty bad Thursday efforts against teams we should probably beat.
It is not even limited to us, as it affects the entire conference. Wisconsin had been dominated in their last road game and they came in 1 for the last 40 years at Mackey Arena. That didn't stop them from opening a 22-4 lead. At Indiana, the Hoosiers were seemingly invincible at home and Minnesota came in as the only winless team in conference play, yet the Golden Gophers were in control throughout. Ohio State on paper looks like the league's best team, but they have twice now been felled on the road.
It is clearly safe to say that nothing can be taken for granted in this league, as Michigan State is the only team that has dodged a loss so far. That likely means it is only a matter of time before the Spartans are shocked by someone.
I admit that I felt the Mackey Magic when I walked in last night. The crowd felt ready, but was quickly taken out of it. It wanted to explode all night and even got to a solid level when we had a big second half run, but we couldn't get over the hump to tie or take the lead and take the crowd to that next level where it carries us (though the short, gray haired official made certain of that a few times).
I had a lot of time to think about this game on the drive home last night. When I left make, it was a loss that had me stinging because it was one that was the result of missed opportunities. Ultimately, you cannot fall behind 22-4 at home, but the Badgers made the most of the opportunities given them at that point and we did not. We twice got within striking distance only to miss a chance to get over the edge.
Example one came in the first half when we were a quite pathetic 4 of 11 from the free throw line. That was ultimately where this game was lost. D.J. Byrd had five shots after getting fouled on a three-pointer and a technical was issued to Bo Ryan. He only made two, killing that momentum. Travis Carroll also had an empty trip to the line with Terone Johnson and Anthony Johnson having 1 for 2 trips.
Wisconsin did not have such struggles. They finished a solid 20 of 24 from the line and Jordan Taylor, Ben Brust, and Ryan Evans were a perfect 8 for 8 in the final 30 seconds when Kelsey Barlow was matching them two for two. The Badgers also hit throughout the game to keep us at bay.
The second missed opportunity came after our 13-0 run cut a 15 point lead down to two. Hummel, Byrd, and TJ made quick work of it with successive triples, and AJ got it to two with a nice floater. Mike Bruesewitz was able to answer with his own three, however, and TJ but it back to three with a layup with 8:43 left.
This is where the game was really lost for us. At the under 8 timeout we had the basketball with a chance to cut it to one or tie. Ryne Smith passed up an open three off a curl (the type of curl he usually buries) to a more open look for Travis Carroll. I don't have a problem at all with TC taking the shot there. He has proven he can hit that mid-range jumper. He missed, but Lewis Jackson got the rebound. Ryno had another good look he passed up, and instead, TJ missed a layup.
Bruesewitz not only corralled the critical defensive rebound, he buried a kickout three on the following possession. With another stop Wisconsin came down and Brust hit another three. In a span of roughly 45 seconds we went from being down three with the ball to being down nine. We wouldn't get it as close as three again until there were two seconds left.
This was Wisconsin's game to win. They hit their free throws, hit every big shot, had great balance with five players in double figures, and built an early lead they were able to hang on to. Once again, we played well enough to win for 30 minutes, but had a key 10 minute stretch where we simply looked awful. There were still some positives as TJ had 16 points and was even a shocking 6 of 8 from the free throw line. Travis Carroll played a fantastic game with four points, eight rebounds (including seven on the offensive glass), an assist, and a steal. His effort was definitely there all night long.
Unfortunately, many of the same problems that have driven us mad showed up. I already addressed the free throw shooting, but the tendency to collapse on the drive and leave shooters on the perimeter was devastating, no more so than in that 45 second stretch mentioned above. We also refused to attack the basket for long stretches and settled for jump shots on a lot of possessions. Mrs. T-Mill said it best: We act like the inside of the three point line is hot lava at times.
What we have now is a virtual dogfight. The Big Ten title could still happen, but only if we get on a major run in league play with most of the contenders coming up. An NCAA bid is still likely, but we need to win 7 of our last 13 to feel totally safe before heading to Indy. We know each game is going to be a fight as well, so it is time to go one at a time and I need to stop looking forward so much.
Fortunately, we have this weekend off. This team is pretty battered with LewJack, Hummel, and Sandi Marcius all battling nagging injuries. Best of all, we don't need to travel for our next game next week, so that hopefully gives them more time in this multi-million dollar sports medicine facility we finished. Our 26 game winning streak may be history (and credit to Wisconsin for earning this one), so that just means it is time to start a new one. We still haven't lost two in a row this year, so I am confident that we can turn things around when the Hawkeyes visit next week.
This is still a good basketball team, but unlike in past year when our talent could give us an edge, we need to play virtually perfect in most games to win. three of our five losses have come in games now where we have had an awful 10 minute stretch, and the fourth was an awful 40 minute stretch. Only Alabama beat us straight up where we played fairly consistent throughout.
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Mrs T-Mill and I think a lot alike.
I made that exact same comment on the Penn State game thread. I really wonder if “everything inside the three point line is hot lava” is the name of that offensive set.
When your point guard is your best inside threat...
…this happens. We need capable bigs. Lawson will get there but it’ll be next year, which leaves a void this year.
by docjay0 on Jan 13, 2012 11:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Lawson?
What evidence is there in the last few games in the Big Ten season when it actually matters, that shows you Lawson will be even close to being a capable big next year? He has basically been a non-factor in all of our Big Ten games so far. I do think he is talented and can contribute to the team in the future, but it appears he is playing out of position as a 5
Lawson
There’s no doubt he is not a 5. He is a very good 4 if he is in the right situation. Basically, if all he needs to do is play defense, rebound on both ends and run the break. He will have some fantastic dunks before he’s done. But a 5? at this point, he has no idea how to score with his back to the basket.
Yes
We can have one guy whose sole job is to play defense, rebound on both ends and run the break. We can’t have two guys who are offensive liability (e.g. Sandi and Lawson together) coz then it’s like playing 3-on-5 on offense. If Lawson is paired up with say JJ he will have LOTS of putbacks and a big block party.
Rest Lewjack
I think we need to sit Lewjack vs. Iowa, and maybe at MSU. He’s just in way too much pain right now. I love how he’s fighting through it, but we need to get him a week or more off, if we are going to do anything down the stretch. I think Barlow and TJ can fill in at the point, for a game or 2, without losing too much.
Keep the faith! I think this team can still get it figured out. Boiler Up!
Agreed
This team wins when LewJack plays well and loses when he doesn’t. So Painter may have to treat LewJack like Hummel a few years ago when he would play a game or two and take a game or two off. It just seems to me that there isn’t any chemistry with this team and I’m sure it has a lot to do with the lack of practice time together do to all of the injuries.
I was encouraged by TJ and Carroll last night. I thought TJ played his best game as a Boilermaker. He quit trying to be a perimeter player and took the ball to the basket…and made his free throws when he got to the line. If he can do that consistently for the rest of the year we might still have a chance to make some noise in the Big Ten. I thought the same for Carroll. He obvisouly isn’t going to be an offensive machine but there is value to be had from him if he can rebound like he did and make some easy shots every now and again. He certainly plays hard but he just isn’t that athletic.
Hopefully all of these guys can just find a way to put it all together on the same night and we might be able to win some big games. At least IU lost…that made me feel a little bit better.
We need to stop looking to IU's losses for comfort
I take comfort in knowing that they lost at home to a team we blew out on the road as it may end up boosting our resume.
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Senior All-American Alto Sax
It's not soley because they are IU
It helps keep us in the Big Ten race if one of the other teams that was 3-1 lost on the same night we did;
x2
We need to get a healthy LewJack in March. That’s #1 priority.
Somehow I got the feeling that the players on this team play better when they don’t have to worry about getting subbed whenever they made a mistake. With Sandi hurt and Lawson always in foul trouble, TC knew he would get his minutes. He wasn’t rushing things but instead became more aggressive. Just compare his stats after Sandi went down and you know what I mean.
On the flip side of the coin is AJ. He just felt lost to me ever since John Hart is back, as his minutes becomes less and less consistent. He’d make a freshman mistake and got pulled. After all, we have too many SGs.
It seems the same holds for TJ. He played a lot better yesterday, coincidentally when it was obvious that LewJack couldn’t really go. Maybe it was just a coincidence, but it fits the pattern I’ve been observing.
So I say, definitely rest LewJack against Iowa, and give TJ the minutes. This will free up some time for AJ too at the 2-spot, and I believe with more consistent minutes it’ll give AJ the boost that he sorely needs.
Disappointment
On a positive note for me my son got to be the ball kid last night, but the 4 hour drive for that game kind of sucked.
I didn’t think Byrd got enough game time last night and he seemed to be one of the few w/ energy.
Who also would have thought before this year that Barlow would have been one of our best free throw shooters?
We wasted what was probably Carroll best game of the year, hopefully this gets him going in the right direction.
I thought that Barlow played a solid game again and has most of the year.
It just seemed like we didn’t move the ball enough especially when they were double teaming Ryno basically everytime he touched it after he made those 2 threes.
TMill is right, that place wanted to explode all second half we just needed someone to step up. I just want to see Robbie take over a game once this year.
TJ did a lot of good things for us last night, but his body language on the court is just bad.
Easily his best year
Some time in the first half, Robbie missed a jumper and some guy in a white jersey came flying out of nowhere for the offensive rebound.
I literally said “who the hell was that?!”
Maybe he matches up pretty well with other tall white guys. He completely shut down Meyers Leonard, gave Kenny Frease a run for his money. Who’s next? Cody Zeller? Make it happen TC.
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Senior All-American Alto Sax
game of the year*
SB Nation needs an edit button.
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Senior All-American Alto Sax
Everyone wants to prove they can hit from distance.
No one wants to prove they can post up. That being said, we are good at attacking the basket we just need to do it more. TJ looked great, Carroll looked great Ryno has to shoot more on offense. We need him to step up b/c LewJack can’t carry the team right now, and Robbie can’t do it on his own. It was good to see that we kept clawing our way back into it. During our opening stretch one of the Seniors has to get the ball in the lane and if they don’t convert, then they need to hit the free throws. They are the leaders and the best free throw shooters on this team. When nothing is falling we don’t attack the basket enough and when everything is hitting we attack like crazy. We have to get in the lane. I’m glad it seems TJ is over the hump with Free throws. We’ll get in the tourney.
tell me who out of this team has a good post up game?
… I’ll be waiting until the end of the season
To your call once more we rally...
No chances
It’s hard to evaluate how good anybody’s post-up game is when the ball is never thrown into the bigs in a post-up situation. I bet I can count on one hand how many times the ball has been thrown to Marcius, Carroll, or Lawson when they are just one-on-one with a man behind them. Hard to increase confidence with little to no opportunities.
We don't necessarily need to post up
Just run pick-and-rolls for TC/Sandi/Lawson to establish some inside presence.
Agreed... Pick and rolls
We don’t have a player that can post up but there is no reason we can’t do a pick and roll. Hummel was riding Carrol hard all night for not rolling after setting a pick. It’s frustrating to see Carrol set a good pick then stand still or move even farther from the basket.
Agree, but I think he doesn't roll b/c he is more of a pick-and-pop guy
…despite an so-so jumper (maybe above avg in big men standard, but definitely iffy for D1 level players). Plus, TC has blown soooooo many bunnies and he is prone to miss foul shots so he shies away from contact.
I know this VERY well b/c everything I am accusing of TC now I make pretty much the exact same type of mistake. Sadly :-(
We knew this team did not have top 5 B1G talent..
…but I was expecting us to make up for that with our defensive play and hard work that has been so consistent over Painter’s tenure. Unfortunately, that has not been the case.
I have caught myself too many times questioning Painter’s moves this season. For starters, it is on the coach when players don’t show up to play….PERIOD. This is the second time we have come out looking completely flat in league play, as if we don’t even want to be out on the court.
Another thing that really irked me last night was Painter’s lineup change in the middle of our biggest run in the second half. We were dominating with the smaller, quicker lineup we had in (Barlow, TJ, Byrd, Lawson, LewJack). Not sure why he felt he had to put Robbie right back in the game when he was obviously not having a very solid game, as he hasn’t the last 3 games. We were dominating for a stretch and he completely killed our momentum.
With that said, I’m not even close to suggesting that there might be a better candidate for the job, but I am still left scratching my head after several games this season, which usually doesn’t happen. So come on, CMP! Wake up! Boiler up!
I tend to agree
Some lineup decisions have been questionable, but we don’t have the lineup we’ve had of late. We’re back to having a lot of good pieces that don’t seem to fit together well at times.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
painter isn't the problem
He changed line ups because they adjusted. You guys think that we have 5 all Americans on the court. Our team will be up and down all year. Suggesting we should be looking for a new coach when we are exactly where everyone thought we would be wont help anything. It’s a long season. The time to evaluate coaches is at the end of the year
by JFranchise on Jan 13, 2012 9:54 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I don't think anyone is suggesting we look for a new coach...
not in this tread anyways.
Did you read the post?
Nobody suggested that we look for a new coach…in fact, I stated the exact opposite within the post. There has just been a couple of issues that many people have noticed this year. Our offense lacks creativity and there has absolutely been a couple of questionable lineup moves.
Just taking notice to them, that’s all.
by NDMBoiler09 on Jan 13, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
The lineup is not the problem
LewJack is banged up. Ryne twisted his ankle. Sandi is out. Lawson can’t stay on the floor long b/c of his foul trouble. We have too many SGs. All of these come affects Painter’s lineup decision. It’s easy to second-guess the coach but this game is not won or lost due to the lineup.
Too many
Not only do we have too many SG’s, but they are undersized. If we had a team full of 6’5" to 6’6" SG’s, it would be a different story and open a few more options and adjustments.
Maybe Painter's hope is to have them grow a couple more inches after they commit
…but then they stop growing :-
If they are 6’5 or 6’6 they will be pushed to play the 3 or the 4. For crying out loud we were playing the 6’4 Byrd as the 4.
I would have to agree on one instance in particular lastnight
Rob finally hit a 3 from the top of the key, and the next play he got taken out. Hard to get any momentum goin for yourself like that.
No one
We tried that twice all night.
Robbie kicked it back out after being unable, and TJ scored once of a good entry.
No one that's the problem. Rob needs to post up more.
Or take the ball since he’s more agile/athletic/savy then most guys guarding him and just back him all the way down to the basket and then just man handle him since he’s stronger and show off his strength. At one point Rob was going to and then kicked it back out, he probably wouldn’t have gotten off a good shot but he would have got fouled and all I was thinking is… SHOOT it! Don’t pass for a longer shot and then we miss the longer shot. I like this team our vets just have to play smart, and get closer to the basket when contested long range shots aren’t falling.
Remind Me....
When did Robbie ever become a post player? Can’t say I remember him posting up much at all. And at 6’8, 215 lbs… I don’t think he’s going to post up too many B1G post players.
Rob does not have a post up game...
plain and simple. Just because he’s 6’8" doesn’t mean he has a collegiate post up game. He’s not quick enough to pivot by or elevate. Yes, he can back them down, but that doesn’t mean anything if you can’t get your shot of consistently. Why do you think he passed it out? He knew his shot would’ve gotten blocked. Goodness, sometimes we think that Rob Hummel can do EVERYTHING on the court, I think it’s because we WANT him to do everything.
In Rob’s 4-5 years @ Purdue I’d say he’s gotten the ball on the block less than 5% of his touches. That, my friend is the antithesis of a post up game.
To your call once more we rally...
cant agree with you two
before he got hurt, backing people down and being fed in the post was a big part of robs game considering he started that season shooting like 15 percent from deep
by jack'sIUdisdain on Jan 13, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Hummel looks
very slow and less confident than ever (that is when he’s inside the 3 line)
Don’t know if anyone else has noticed, but defensively, he has been a liability as well in some games. He’s not switching sometimes ( at least not fast enough). This recent problem of other teams bigger players stepping out for wide open3s is between him and Carrol and/or Lawson not doing their job
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 13, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Completely agree!
Not only has his shot looked flat that past few games, but his whole game has looked slow and unenthusiastic.
by NDMBoiler09 on Jan 13, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Painter's defense always has resulted in open looks for opposing bigs.
It’s the hard hedging.
by Ray Williams? on Jan 13, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
True
And most of the time, it’s a better poison to take. Unfortunately, that’s also why Wisky always have a 6’10 guy shooting lights out every time they play us. I guess the same for that PSU guy.
Hummel has never
had lateral quickness and strugged to keep quicker players in front of him. I never remembered him with a post move that didn’t involve a fade away shot.
Smith, Byrd, and Hummel can be defensive liabilities when it comes to keeping players in front of them.
seriously?
It wasn’t. He didn’t score effectively from a post position. He may have gotten rebounds and putbacks… But he’s never been a constant post scorer. But hey… I see how legends of beloved players get more and more romanticised.
To your call once more we rally...
by H Dot Jones on Jan 13, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
+1
He has always been a jump shooter, with the occasional pull up or putback. Hummel never posted people up. Their are three problems with the offense.
1. We are primarily a jump shooting team with no one to drive into the paint and kick it back out.
2. No post presence.
3. Our two best jump shooters: A) Feel like they have to carry the team (Hummel and his consistent 15, 16 shot attempts a game) or B) Are still too hesitant (Smith passing up wide open looks to pass the ball).
Agreed, Rob is not a post player
He did try in the game – I noticed that. But the defender stayed put and he had to pass the ball out. I’ve read that he worked on his post game in the summer, but apparently not enough and he still doesn’t fully trust it.
The best post players still pass it out. Watch Sullinger, watch JJ’s past couple years. They pass it out, re-position themselves, and get the ball fed back to them. It’s pretty standard, but TJ didn’t feed it back for some reason. That was my take away from that specific play.
Agreed
And obviously Rob is not used to being a post-player to play with his back against the basket. He is most comfortable facing the basket, and that makes sense, given the kind of shooter he is.
besides lew jack being hurt
He wouldn’t have had that good a game with Taylor on him. Jordan is a very good, quick defender and lew doesn’t do well with guys that are as quick as him.
by JFranchise on Jan 13, 2012 9:50 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Last Year
Last year in Mackey LewJack had his way with Taylor. This was right after Taylor had that great 2nd half against OSU and LewJack clearly outplayed him.
Wisconsin's mindset vs. Purdue mindset were different from last year to this year
Purdue was the hungrier team last year… Wisky was still gleaming after beating OSU. Fast forward to yesterday. Wisconsin had to have that win, we went into PSU mode early.
To your call once more we rally...
Taylor
Taylor had no problem staying with LewJack this year, none at all. Whether it be the injury or Taylor putting more energy into his defense, LewJack could not get past him for a shot. He even went right past Barlow a few times.
Bryson Scott will change that, but until then big, physical point guards that are quick will give us, as well as most teams, fits. Though I am quite interested in seeing Ronnie Johnson’s defense as well.
Free Throws were the difference.
All things aside, we still played well enoug to win if we hit a good percentage of our FT’s.
Therefore I’m not that concerned. Yeah we lost but we were down BIG and fought our way back to within 3. If we hit our FT’s we win that game.
Close by the Wabash, In famed Hoosier land, Stands old Purdue, Serene and Grand, Cherished in Memory,By all her sons and daughters true, Fair Alma Mater, All Hail Purdue
by BoilerUpAT on Jan 13, 2012 10:05 AM EST via mobile reply actions
This one is disappointing
Everything looked good except the shots just weren’t falling.
11 offensive boards, 3(!) turnovers all game to their 11(!)
You can’t say that this team was lazy or gave up or anything. It was a loss simply because they shots just weren’t going down.
Seriously, though, TJ was in attack mode all night long. Kelsey Barlow needs to be the same way.
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Senior All-American Alto Sax
Amen, thank you!!
I hate, no, HATE using “shots not falling” as an excuse when we lose. I remember once I got into a heated argument with a buddy after we lost a pick-up game, and he used that excuse and I went ballistic at him. To me, he wasn’t playing hard enough and “shots not falling” (while true) was just an easy excuse that I refused to accept.
Watching the game last night, I was FRUSTRATED, even my wife noticed sth different (despite me being always emotional when it comes to Purdue basketball). It’s like the rim has a lid on us while their 3-balls all went in like crazy. But after the game and we lost, I actually feel encouraged. It is one of those games that it’s really “shots not falling”, and not b/c we aren’t playing hard. This, I can accept.
We weren’t lazy. We didn’t give up despite the huge hole we were in. We fought hard (esp. TJ and TC). Even LewJack, despite banged up, was tough on Jordan Taylor and bodying him to a TO. That’s what I want to see.
I remember 2 yrs ago we played sloppy but beat Minn at home. Painter wasn’t thrilled and we then lost 3 games in a row (almost 4 if not b/c of John Hart). As Painter explained, when you played sloppy and won, it sow the seed for bad habits. I feel like Wisky game is the exact opposite. We did a lot of great things (3 TOs the entire game!) and 11 offensive boards and 21 more shots and these things would win us games most of the time. We may have lost the game, but I feel what we’ve gained (or showed) is enough to give me optimism going forward.
x2
I definately did not see any laziness or cockiness out of us last night, as some here are claiming. I thought our help side D in the first 5 minutes of the game was out of sync and allowed numerous open looks which they capitalized on. We were still rebounding, hustling, moving on offense, etc. We had some decent looks to start. Kelsey got to the rim a couple times and couldn’t convert, Hummel got a decent jumper that didn’t fall, Lewjack hit one jumper but missed another… shots just weren’t falling to start the game and that was the difference. Also a 70% effort at the line would’ve helped, but we are to the point now where we have to assume 50% from the line and work around it. I think TJ’s 6/8 was an aberration and I’ll expect him to shoot 2/8 next time until he can prove he’s out of that funk.
by BoilerGOZ on Jan 13, 2012 11:39 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
TJ's FT
Your pessimism is very much justified. In fact, if you point a gun at my head and my life depends on it I’ll bet he’ll shoot 2/8 rather than 6/8 going forward.
But as a fan, I can’t help but be biased, and my gut feeling is that he is over his hump. It is obvious that his struggle is psychological. While those are the most difficult to fix, yet they can also be cured in a heartbeat. It’ll take years for someone to develop a 3-point stroke like Ryne Smith’s, but it can take seconds to cure a FT shooter’s slump. After all, it’s really hard for a D1 guard to shoot JUST 27%.
here's some optimism
I have noticed he’s been trying different routines. last night he bounced it three times before each shot so perhaps that is making him feel more comfortable which resulted in 6/8. That’s as far as my optimism will go on his free throw shooting
by BoilerGOZ on Jan 13, 2012 2:04 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Shots not falling
That is a common excuse for a team that relies on the jump shot as much as we do. And our other strong offensive aspect, driving to the hoop, is negated if we don’t make the free throws.
Two distinct reasons why this team is offensively challenged at times.
We lack an inside presence offensively
Without an inside presence, we will struggle all year against well-coached teams. The offense is too predictable.
We also
Shot the ball 21 more times than them 61-40. That was after we fouled and took more shots of course, but the margin was still at least 15 or so before we got to that point. Even if some were a little forced you would expect to win shooting that much more.
Bad shot selection?
One reason some of the shots weren’t going down was the poor shot selection. To me, it seemed that Rob rushed a lot of his shots.
A lot of truths being pointed out
Carroll showing life; TJ getting some confidence. These are all good things, but just glancing at the stats makes you wonder what the hell happened. In a game where we get more offensive boards from Carroll than Wisc’s whole team, get a 75% FT performance from TJ, give up only 3 TOs the entire game it kind of blows me away. Yes, we’ll have nights where our shooting is “off.” But tonight’s was awful. There is no excuse for shooting free throws at <55% on your home court. We also took 21 MORE shots than Wisc from the field.
Things just didn’t look crisp at all on the offensive side. (even on defense we continued to be confused on match-ups throughout the second half). Robbie was getting frustrated because guys weren’t where they were supposed to be. I hope players like Carroll and TJ use this game to realize they can do good things for us when they work hard on the floor.
by boileralum2010 on Jan 13, 2012 10:14 AM EST reply actions
the coach at Duke
makes his team shoot free-throws for 1 hour before every game
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 13, 2012 10:27 AM EST reply actions
Who Cares
Shaq shot 500 FTs everyday in practice and would routinely make 75-80%. Lot of good it did him in games. Practice is important yes, but at this point the guys just have to get the confidence in games to make them. More FT practice is not the answer to everything.
Thats true but
Mason Plumlee still shoots about 30%. I think in last night’s game he was 2/10.
I don’t get the point in long free throw sessions. In games, you have to hit them in a completely isolated situation. Shoot one or two, run around for ten minutes, shoot another one.
by Ray Williams? on Jan 13, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
x2
Can’t believe I agree with you, but in this case, you are absolutely right. Numbers tend to get inflated when you shoot 100 in a row because you are not tired and you shoot in a rhythm. You don’t feel any pressure either.
When addressing a FT slump, you have to understand the main root cause. Long FT sessions is not necessarily the cure.
Wasn't that in an Exponent article?
A former Purdue player would do sprints before taking free throws in practice to simulate the fatigue he’d be under in actual games.
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Senior All-American Alto Sax
The article you are refering to was on Terry Dischinger
He would stop during practices or scrimages at various intervals and shoot FT’s. He never shot more than 2 at a time. Believe he was an 85%+ shooter.
by Hummel's figurines on Jan 13, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Completely Correct
I remember in high school our coach had us shoot 10 FTs after every drill. So that we’d be winded, tired, adrenalilne going from the exertion, and we’d have to learn to calm ourselves in order to shoot.
Just saying in a blanket statement “Coach needs to make them work on FTs longer” is a dumb statement.
Technique / Feel
There is value in shooting a 100 FT before practice, just as there is value in a golfer hitting a 100 short putts before a round. It is about developing a consistent routine and stroke, so that when faced with that situation in a game / round, you can rely on muscle memory to take over and take some of the mental aspects out of it. I do like your idea of shooting FT after drills in practice but I still think there is value in shooting before and after practice. Personally, like putting in golf, FT shooting is more mental than anything. Its important to have a consistent and repeatable stroke but at some point you just have to be mentally strong enough to make shots during big moments.
Absolutely
There is value in taking lots of FTs to train the muscle memory. Especially to beginners, no one can become good in FT w/o shooting 100 in a row, many many times. But our players aren’t beginners. Their problem is sth else. If there is no cost (that is, the players just shoot in their own private time), then sure, shoot 100, or even 1000. But if it means sacrificing practice time on rebounds or defense, then I won’t take that trade off.
x2
Just saying in a blanket statement "Coach needs to make them work on FTs longer" is a dumb statement.
“Coach needs to make them work on FTs longer (and ignore other important drills like rebounding and team defense)” is even dumber.
you should care
cuz we SUCK at the line fool
by Boilerhoosier91 on Jan 13, 2012 10:56 AM EST reply actions
Missed lay-ups and free throws
We all know free throws is killing us, but the amount of missed layups and potential and-1s was making me pull my hair out. I’m not really bashing TJ, but he EASILY could have had 3 3 point plays from driving and making the lay-up and getting fouled. I hope as him game progresses he can get more of those to fall, because he showed last night he isn’t afraid to drive. I loved seeing him be aggressive.
And for everyone that says Raphael Davis can only drive, well watch his videos and body control, expect a lot of and-1s next year from him.
SIDE NOTE
Hook that guy at halftime up with a scholarship! That dude was the highlight of my night, perfect 3-3 haha. And the Tebowing got him on Sportscenter
Even if he could only drive
He scores so consistently doing it I would be ok. TJ is the closest thing we have to Davis’ ridiculous ability to drive to the basket and we have all seen how well he does when he drives.
Am I the only one?
Who thought TJ didn’t have that great of a game. There were several times he was jacking early 3s instead of trying to see if we could get one of our better shooters open.
He jacked a 3 around the 1:10 mark that was bad
The play before he had done a nice crossover, drove, and got fouled. Next time down he did some moves and just instead of driving, threw up a contested 3.
That wasn’t the only bad one. For some shooters any open shot is a good shot. For TJ an open 3 isn’t always a good shot. An open 3, 5 seconds into the possession is probably not a good shot.
I’m all for some players getting aggressive when everyone else looks too passive, but that didn’t seem like a problem last night. Some people have called out Barlow for not being aggressive enough, but I disagree. I think Barlow was working it around like he should and then TJ would get antsy and just try to make something happen.
It all depends if you are thinking absolute or relative
Relative to his PSU game, TJ played GREAT. He was aggressive with the ball driving to the hoops, and heck, he even made 75% FTs. In absolute terms, he could have done a lot better.
The same with TC. In relative terms, he played GREAT. He flew out from nowhere to grab an offensive reb. He hustled big time on the boards with 7 offensive rebs, and that tells me that he worked real hard. Now was he even good (in absolute terms)? No. He got blocked by a guard underneath the basket and missed an open short jumper.
If you judge by absolute terms, you’ll drive yourself crazy all season b/c unless you are UK, Duke, UNC or O$U, every game will be a bad game. For me, as long as the players work hard and play above his capacity, I consider it a great game for them.
Our better shooters don't like taking shots.
Would I prefer Hummel and TJ to calm down and take three’s when they are open? Sure. Both of them took a lot of shots that I think they shouldn’t have. Hummel especially is forcing things. He used to let the game come to him; now I think he has the feeling of having to carry the team on offense which leads to his high volume shooting without success.
But…. TJ was our leading scorer. Without him, we would not have been in that game. Remember, last time Hummel played he was on the court with the four winningest players in Purdue history. This team is a far cry from them.
If Hummel has a shot he should shoot.
They can’t win if he isn’t hitting. Might as well go for the gusto.
by Ray Williams? on Jan 13, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
That is the thing, a lot of his shots he didn't have one.
He would get the ball for the first time in a possession, drive, and try taking the shot even though his defender was still in his face. I loved those quick 3’s he had trailing the fast break. That is what I meant by letting the game come to him. He needs to do more things like that rather than trying to drive into the paint when his defender is still sticking on him.
Well, hard to blame them
Yes, ideally they should calm down, I think everyone should last night. But we were rushing things. Wisky is a difficult team to play if you are down big. Coz 1) they don’t turn the ball over, 2) they hit their FT, and 3) they run a REALLY slow pace to the point that unless it is a 3 on 0 fast break they will pull back and use the shot clock. So when we are down 18, we rush things a lot to try to speed up the tempo, but it got worse.
Actually when you said our better shooters don’t like taking shots, I thought u were referring to Ryne Smith. He had some open looks (as TMill also pointed out) that he just inexplicably passed up in the second half. That I am truly disappointed.
I was referring to him with that comment.
But Hummel’s shooting woes are not exclusive to just last night. He has had several games where he has taken tons of shots and only made a few.
Two questions
1. Can we sit LewJack for say three weeks and still make the NCAAs? That’s a key question. If the answer is yes, we should do it. It’s not about winning the Big 10 this year, it’s all about how far can we go in March. We need him close to 100% to go far in the NCAA tourney and I would rather sacrifice our regular season title hopes for that.
2. Will Rob continue to get better as the season goes on? So far I think he’s gotten worse from early in the season, but that could just be better competition. If the reasons that he’s playing poorly are that he’s still building physical strength and mental confidence in his knee, and that he’s unaccustomed to playing with this group of guys, then doesn’t it stand to reason that he should peak in March? As with above, I couldn’t care less about the B1G regular season title. I just want to know how we move into March both in the tournament (don’t care what seed) and at our best to make a run.
Seriously?
The answer is most certainly 100% no….this team is going to have to fight and scrap for every win to qualify for the NCAA tourney. Title hopes aren’t in the cards for this season, irregardless, and an NCAA bid is far from a sure thing.
Well
People seems to accept that he should sit a game or two, which would help but not solve the problem. It begs the questions, how much rest is too much rest? Three games? Five games?
by Frank Drebin on Jan 13, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
It'll be a huge gamble
The thing is, shutting down LewJack for 3 wks still won’t guarantee he’ll get back in full strength. I am not against the idea but it’s a huge gamble. As long as we win the B1G Tourney we get an automatic bid. Even a strong showing (getting to the final game and lose by a small margin to say O$U) might convince the committee to put us in. But it’s a huge gamble.
Fortunately, we don’t have to decide now. Let’s just go easy on LewJack for now. Let TJ play more and also let AJ play more. See how that goes and decide. My hunch is that TJ and AJ just need more consistent minutes to produce. If that’s the case, then the dropoff will not be too bad, and we might get LewJack in time for the late push.
Maybe
But if the alternative is having him limp into the NCAAs only to lose in the first or second round, then I’d be prepared to take that gamble.
by Frank Drebin on Jan 13, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
The main goal should be to make the tourney.
Face it, the B1N title and a deep run in the NCAA’s is a pipe dream even with a healthy Lewjack. But if we don’t have a 90-100% LJ for the bulk of the remaining conference schedule, we won’t even make the field. I, personally would sit Lew for Iowa (should win anyway) and @ MSU (loss regardless) and hope against hope that does the trick. This is why CMP gets paid the big bucks. He has to figure out the best way to navigate this minefield that is Lewjack’s back.
by Hummel's figurines on Jan 13, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
I think that is what I would do
At least sit him for Iowa. Then depending on how we start at MSU, try to keep him on the bench there too. Who knows, maybe TJ and AJ would step up, similar to how TC has stepped up since Sandi’s been out.
Few observations
A team that relies on threes will be inconsistant. You’ll beat teams you shouldn’t and lose to teams you should beat. Purdie ranks 18th in the country in the number of threes attempted. When you make them your great. When they’re not falling your done. Thats why Purdue builds leads and then loses them and why they fell behind last night. They opened up 2-15.
By the way TJ was 4-13 last night. Thats not a great game.
I agree with some of the others, Robbie Hummel is having a hard time defending.
DJ Byrd, Barlow and Carrol gave great effort last night.
He was still the leading scorer, and several of those misses were because he got fouled.
TJ and Hummel were the only ones trying to score most of the night. They took too many shots, yes, but I rather have that than what Smith did. Smith is a great shooter and he passed the ball several times he had a great look.
My understanding is that a missed FG attempt while being fouled isn’t recorded in the book (if the player misses the field goal). That prevents players from getting statistically penalized from being hacked.
My understanding is the opposite
If you attempt a FG while being fouled, the FGA is still in the record book. That’s why perfect from the floor AND perfect from the line is so rare: in addition to making lots of shots, you either need and-1 or just get fouled while the team is in the bonus to achieve it.
ugh, meant for mastertim
if you are fouled on a FG attempt it is not recorded
Why I am still optimistic
Despite a home loss, I am actually more optimistic than I was after PSU. Maybe TMill’s perpetual optimistic-bias is rubbing on me. I am sure a lot will disagree, and the disagreement is well justified as I am going on gut instinct here (which could easily be wrong), but
1. We played hard. That’s the most important thing. Unlike @PSU, you can really see guys like TJ and TC were crashing the board and driving to the lane hard. Sure, they still made lots of mistakes, but as long as we play hard we can really make noise.
2. Coming back from 18-down to down-by-2 is an accomplishment against Wisky. They played at a crawling pace (use the shot clock every time), don’t turn the ball over, and hit their FTs. I know moral victory doesn’t count, but it shows that our team isn’t THAT bad as some fans are suggesting.
3. There are games you play lousy and win, and there are games you play well and lose. In Kramer’s senior year, we beat Minn at home while playing lousy. Painter warned that those lucky wins may be a trap b/c it gets you into bad habits (e.g. not playing hard). We promptly lost 3 straight afterwards. Wisky game is the opposite. For 30 minutes we played hard, but the hole was too deep to climb out. The process of playing hard is more important to long-term success.
4. TJ’s FT. As long as he can hit even just 60% of FT (he hit 56% last year), it would make a huge difference! You see last night he hit 6-of-8 and led the team in scoring. Since his FT struggles are mental, my gut says that he will no longer shoot 30% the rest of the way but closer to 60%. Just gut feel. That’s a big boost.
5. TC going nuts on the glass last night with 7 offensive rebs. Sure, some may be just plain lucky, but he flew from nowhere to grab some too. That’s a very encouraging sign and we badly need that.
6. Three TOs against Wisky is an impressive accomplishment. Getting 11 offensive rebs and taking 21 more shots too. This means we are winning the possession battle. In most nights, this will get you a W. Obviously we didn’t last night, but I like our chances if we can keep winning the possession battle, and Wisky is a team that excels in possession and we beat them handily in this area.
7. We aren’t really that far off. If Byrd hit 3 more FTs and Robbie hit his 2, we’d have tied the game. I know you can’t do that, but Byrd was 13-17 (76%) coming in, and Robbie is a career 85% shooter. I like our odds when they shoot. If I have to pick 2 ppl to shoot 5 FTs (and Ryne Smith is not allowed), I’d have picked those two. So while the result is not what we want, I’ll take that.
The only thing that makes me concern is LewJack’s health. That’s the thing that may turn me pessimistic. But I think this loss is not as bad as most think. Wisky had their back against the wall, and they came out with their best punch. If O$U is down by 18 to a turtle-paced Wisky team I am not sure if they can dig themselves out either. We took a huge punch and yet still managed to make it a fight. While moral victories don’t count, as long as we keep up the fighting attitude, I can see a lot real victories coming out from this.
agree 100%
especially the part about lewjack’s health. on the other hand, the gust on this team need yo learn how to play without him since he won’t be there next year to provide the same spark. I know RJ is coming, but he’ll need time to transition, and we don’t have another true PG on the roster.
BTFU!
by BoilerAdam on Jan 14, 2012 8:53 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Optimistic as well.
I agree Charlespig. We lost to a Wisconsin team with better talent…. not a big deal. If people want to dwell on a loss it should be Butler and Penn State. Those are loses that could keep us out of the NCAA tournament A few things I see that needs to happen that are possible.
1) Barlow needs to make 75% of his tradmark drive to the right layups. Lost count of how many of these he missed last night. Also, stop shooting the 3!
2) TJ continue to improve his free throws which will improve his confidence. Stop shooting 3’s.
3) Carrol to actually roll to (not away from) the basket after a pick.
Absolutely agree with your 3 points
Painter should post that in the locker room for the remind the three players!!
(Yeah, I also lost count of how many missed Barlow’s layups and that’s why I have to blame it on my least favorite excuse “shots not falling”. I mean, at least he is not jacking and bricking 3s. But had a couple of those layups went in it’d have been a totally different ball game)
As I said before
enjoy the season – we will win 80% at home, 50% on the road and barely make the big dance. that’s what we have this year – enjoy it – it could be a lot worse
Are you from the future?
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
"We have the Cannon, the Bucket, the Little Caesar's Bowl trophies, and I'm pretty sure the Nation's Best Kick-Off Team Trophy as well to put in our trophy case" --Purdue Coach Danny Hope
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 14, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
Dude, if that's the case I'd be HAPPY
With 9 home games and 9 road games, that means 7.2 home wins and 4.5 road wins, so very roughly 12-6. Given so much good teams this season in the B1G I’ll take that kind of record! I expect the eventual B1G to lose AT LEAST 4 games, so losing “only” 6 games with this kind of talent and injuries we have I’ll take it any day.
ESPN Article: Hummel's shooting woes
The Boilermakers’ leading scorer is struggling with his shot.
You need ESPN Insiders Access
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/features/rumors/_/date/20120113#6350
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