Boilermakings For 1/11
by BoilerTMill on Jan 11, 2012 9:05 AM EST
in Boilermakings and other Purdue sports
Email
PrintReader Ryan Bucher has asked me to include a poll with today's link dump. He wants to know if Purdue fans would take 10 straight Final Fours with no titles, or 1 title followed by 10 straight seasons of not making the tournament. To me, it is an easy decision. I want a title and I want it now. I am tired of having the label of "Best program in college basketball without a championship." it is time for it to end. So, that is today's poll. Now, onto the links:
Indianapolis Colts Offseason: Colts Expected To Sign Ryan Grigson As General Manager - SB Nation Indiana
The former Purdue offensive tackle will be taking over as the new Colts General Manager,
Brandon Paul's 43 Point Game For The Ages Takes Down Ohio State 79-74 - Hail to the Orange
Illinois helps us out, improving our win over them and dealing Ohio State another blow in the Big Ten race.
Delayed Kneejerk Reaction, Bowl Season. Or, The Part Of The Story Where We Heap Praise On Both Michigans - Off Tackle Empire
Delayed Kneejerk Reaction, Bowl Season
2012 BCS and B1G Bowl Projections - Opening Call - Off Tackle Empire
Enough with the 2011 season already. That's been over for minutes. Who'll play for it all in 2012?
Illinois high school boys basketball: Bob Hambric Shootout roundup: Orr earns easy win against East Chicago - chicagotribune.com
A report on LaLumiere with Davis and Simpson.
CELTICS NOTEBOOK: Rookies will probably avoid NBDL - Brockton, MA - The Enterprise
Because of the shortened season, Celtics coach Doc Rivers figures draft picks JaJuan Johnson and E'Twaun Moore will say with Boston rather than get some games in for the Maine Red Claws.
Dooling shooting for more success - Boston Celtics Blog - ESPN Boston
The Celtics are still hoping that E`Twaun Moore can provide some point guard help. Of course, that means Doc Rivers would have to play him.
Dienhart: Big Ten Hoops Player Rankings " Big Ten Network
Robbie is rated No. 7 in the big Ten according to BTN.
91 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Watched Brandon Paul last night.
Kid was unreal. I think our win over Illinois will be very solid come resume time.
by Bloomington.Boiler on Jan 11, 2012 9:23 AM EST reply actions
Same
Very similar to smooges 37-point game against the Buckeyes @ Mackey last year
I was thinking
that exact same thing last night. Everything he threw up was good. E’twaun never had a dirty swat on Sullinger, though.
by Bloomington.Boiler on Jan 11, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
not important, but
didn’t Smooge put up 38 on them?
To your call once more we rally....
by BoilerPaulie on Jan 11, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
10 straight final fours would be an awesome run
it would be emotionally stressing getting so close and not winning it for a decade but damn the other 11 months of the year would be so awesome. Plus who is going to rip on you for going to 10 FFs but not winning any? The other teams that went to at most 3 in that decade long span? If you can guarantee me 10 FFs you can keep your NCs. Banners are nice but ten years of what I as a Hoosiers fan just went through? No thank you.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Says the man with five titles
Seriously though, I think all Purdue fans want just one title, mostly because we’re tired of hearing about Indiana’s five and how the one we do have (1932) doesn’t count from other IU fans that aren’t as good as you.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
if you go to ten FFs in ten years
there isn’t much of a leg to stand on. The tourney is a bit of a crap shoot in nature. If you can get to 10 FFs in as many years you have proven to be an elite program, with or without the banner. Now if a school is able to take 2-3 NCs in those ten years and you fall short then give me the NCs. However, you’re going to have to sweeten the deal of “NCs and garbage” for me to take it.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
OMG I can't vote!
What a choice! I mean seriously… If I choose the Final Fours can we win it all the 11th year? I want a championship so bad, but option 2 reeks of IU fan pointing to dusty banner syndrome. (Not pointing at you JustAJ, that does not apply to all IU fans) I’m probably reading way to much into the question, but I picture myself agonizing for 10 years as we fail to make the tournament, having my daughter (now 2 months old) grow up without seeing Purdue in the big dance. Even though both have an element of success, I can’t help feeling like it’s a lose-lose choice here.
in your guys' specific case it depends on who gets the NCs
if IU is winning 2 or 3 NCs in that decade the FFs would be miserable for you. If IU wasn’t making FFs then I think those dusty banners lose even more relevance when they’re 35 years old.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
2nd option isn't IU
because IU has only been terrible for any stretch of time just recently. Normally they’re competitive. What scenario number two is something like an NC State.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Maybe I’d take the NC if the other 10 seasons were a little more bearable. To me it would be likg running a ponzi scheme so you could be filthy rich for one year, only to go to jail for 10 years afterward. Screw that, I’ll take 10 years of good living.
Agree
A team that makes the final four for 10 consecutive years = Dynasty
Team that wins one NC and isn’t heard from again for a decade = Fluke
by AAMB Boiler on Jan 11, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
This was my thought too
Immediately after I read the poll, I thought about the recruiting aspect of it. If Purdue made 10 straight FF’s, they would easily be at the mountaintop for recruiting. They would be like Duke, Kentucky, UNC, etc. So forget 1 NC and then being awful again (because let’s be honest, to miss the tournament as a B1G team you have to be AWFUL). I want a dynasty building, ass kicking, we’re the top dogs now, 10 straight FF run. That would have implications for the 20+ years following with recruiting and a title would have to come from that much talent at some point.
I think there is a really good comparison here
Maryland won in 2002 and while not missing the tourney since then has been largely irrelevant, both Louisville and Kentucky have been consistently good and even though they have both won before but not since 1986 and 1998 respectively. Even removing the history I would rather be very good every year than have one lucky year and then be swept away. I’d much rather be relevant and a lovable loser than totally irrelevant. (disclaimer I do not like UK or Calipari and don’t want to become that)
good comparisons
I’d be Kentucky any day. Much easier to be a fan and care when there is always a chance.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Wow, interesting poll.
I’ll take the Final Fours. I’d rather be consistently good rather than have something hanging in the rafters just so we can wag our fingers at our friends down south.
Everyone who is commenting
is choosing the final fours, myself included, yet I see the National Championship with 10 years of utter suckage is in the lead. Can we get some perspective from those voters?
I didn't vote because I can't decide
but my reasoning for a NC is that is what every team is aiming for. If you were to make the final four 10 years in a row and never win the NC, that is just embarrassing. Plenty of teams have won it once and never had a ton of success after that. The reason I say that is embarrassing is because you have to realize how hard that is to get there 10 times straight and never win. Probably as tough as winning it once. Think of all the recruits you would be getting by going just after 4 times in a row. To not break through and finally win one would be a disgrace.
look how much the Bills got ripped.
would recruits stop wanting to come to Purdue after 10 years of not winning when getting that far?? That’s funny to even say. I can’t imagine all the top recruits craving to come to Purdue.
Yes, I think recruits will LOVE to come to Purdue if that's the case
You are in a no-loss situation. You know you are in a great program (10 straight FF) that gets a ton of national exposure, and you know if you happen to be in the year that breakthrough you will be a LEGEND to push the program over the hump.
That’s the ideal place for any top recruits.
How so?
What would you consider to be the elite programs of college basketball? I think there are 6 “blue bloods” (UNC, Duke, UK, KU, IU, UCLA) with 2 more looking in (MSU, UConn). Those are my elite. All others that may be considered are just good to great programs imo.
Okay, I’ll give you that. But I just think there’s no way a team goes to 10 final fours and doesn’t win a title. I think the other scenario is entirely possible, but not likely.
About 5.6%
Assuming you get 25% chance of winning once you are in FF, to go 10 straight times without winning is about 5.63151%.
That’s assuming every team has a 25% chance. Would you have given George Mason and equal chance to win it all with that Florida team that won it the year before? No way. And you have to think, you would probably be favored at least 3 or 4 times to win it in 10 straight. Your recruiting would most likely improve from the first to the tenth and a great deal at a program like Purdue.
Yea, not exactly embarassing.
For the 10 FF’s it would be a massive story after the second year, and it would only build. It might be like wtf is going on, but it wouldn’t be embarassing at all. A team like that would get so much press. A team that won a NC, would get press the year after when it’s like “wow what happened to the defending Nat’l Champs” then zero press every year after. Sounds funs?
plus in this theoretical situation
there is nothing saying that you’re an automatic powerhouse every year. Perhaps you make some Butler type 5 seed runs that are absolutely magical to watch. 10 FFs does not mean 10 seasons of FF expectations.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
If you make 9 FFs in a row
People would expect you to make a 10th, even if you are Butler
rather be talked about as a failure in big situations
than to not be talked about at all.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Admittedly
I clicked NC so fast, and after thinking about it, I might be a 10 Final Fours guy. That’s year after year of good basketball…
by Bloomington.Boiler on Jan 11, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Same here
If I could change my vote I would. 10 Final Fours would be ridiculous. If you get that kind of success recruits will be fighting each other for a chance to be part of that.
You'll get all the one-and-done ;-)
After all, MSU’s motto is “Every 4 yr player goes to at least one FF” under Izzo. If we go to 10 straight FF, then our motto is “Every player goes to FF”
I voted for NC
We are a championship starved fan base, we already have the monkey on our back about being the best CBB program with out a title. Don’t you think 10 agonizing years of being bridesmaid but never bride would be torture?
Yes i agree being a factor in the final four would be great and fun every year till the first week in April when you watch another team walk away with the title 10 TIMES! I’ve been tortured enough by near misses and what if’s in my young Purdue career…I’ll take the chip and at least be able to say my team won it all one year…
happy about the Grigson hire.
beat me to it rcpratt. I was going to say, interesting poll as well. I voted the final fours but that was really tough. At least at year 11 there should be good prospects to get a title or multiple titles in the next 10. If we don’t make it to the tourney for 10 years we may as well drop the bball program.
not sure how I feel about the Grigson hire
but check out ColtsAuthority.com for my thoughts over the coming days.
/shameless plug
//wink wink nudge nudge
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I'd have to go with the Final Fours
Repeated success brings a program into the spotlight. Missing the tournament for 10 years straight would be hard to recover from.
If the criteria were 10 first or second round exits, then I’d take the championship.
Reaction images? I got 'em
Senior All-American Alto Sax
by Danulas on Jan 11, 2012 11:24 AM EST via mobile reply actions
10 FF in a row
Would be an amazing accomplishment. If we won the whole thing in the 11th year would be absolutely boss.
Follow me on Twitter @airtrees
Yeah, but what's the difference between those programs?
Sustained success, regardless of number of titles…
Wisky went from 1947-1994 without appearing in the tournament
Programs can recover from a drought.
10 straight F4s with no title sounds like a drought to me.
An extremely agonizing one at that.
Do you realize how much the tournament sucks balls when Purdue isn’t in it? Ok so it’s still fun to watch, but a lot of the hype is lost. Sports to me is about the process, the anticipation, and the hope. A 10 year suck-fest doesn’t allow for any of that and would be much more agonizing in my mind.
Do you realize what 10 years of being on the cusp of a title and not winning would do to people?
This place would go insane. People are already hanging CMP because we’re in a transition year – can you imagine if he went 10 years coming that close without closing the deal?
I’d much rather not have a shot at a title than fall maddeningly short year after year. I’d trade one year of a title for 10 years of “the year we lost to so-and-so.”
10 FF
I’d rather have 10 Final Fours. 1 NC and 10 years of not mattering would diminish the value the one 1 NC. It would be passed off as a fluke, which is worse than not having one. People would remember that. I’d rather be able to crow about 10 Final Fours, always being a factor. Look at how we dismiss the IU NCs after all these years, MSU hasn’s had one in 12 years, but has been a factor in the FFs and I here more talk about their FF appearances than their NC.
10 years of winning...
would be ten fun years. It all depends on the timing – if you said would I rather have a title from say, 1965, and no tourney presence until 1975, or 10 years of FF’s from 1955-1964, the choice would easily be the title in 1965. But right now, I’d rather know that we have 10 years of FF’s over 1 NC and no tourney for the next 10.
Now, look at it like this: say we reach the Final Four this year (it could happen…). If someone said to you, would you like to do this 9 more times in a row, or do you want to win the championship this year and then be blanked for the next 9 years?
10 years in the final four....
Is by far a better option. One national championship is like a flash in the pan that guarantees nothing for the future health of the program. Look at Maryland. They won one NC then they have been in steady decline since. Ten final fours in a row will bring in top recruiting classes on a regular basis eventually leading to a NC, hopefully, after the ten years of final four appearances.
I'll take the ten final fours
Mostly because of how the question was phrased. If we were to win a title, then not even MAKE THE TOURNEY for ten years, then we’ll be stamped as the biggest fluke champion in history. If the choice were either ten final fours or one title without even a sweet sixteen appearance (or something higher within the tourney) for ten years, then I’d take the title.
Plus, with ten final four appearances we are getting constant national attention, likely winning some B1G titles and B1G tourneys, and we would garner no further ridicule than we do now for having no titles and, while unpleasant, I have found a way to live with that.
That’s my Purdue engineering logic anyway.
by BoilerGOZ on Jan 11, 2012 1:03 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Man, what a downer.
Just a lively chat on a “would you rather question”, what’s the harm? Do you run into malls during the holidays and expose mall Santas to be fake for all the children too? Let us dream.
It could happen...
And, lucky for me, the santa at my mall is the real deal.
Perhaps a banner age scale is in order...
Much of the discussion is centered around how much a National Championship affects recruiting, but I think we can all agree that how recent a championship was won is just as important as how many a school has. With that in mind, I submit the following banner age scale:
0-5 years – Fresh
6-10 years – Recent
11-15 years – Stale
16-25 years – Dusty
26-35 years – Faded
36-50 years – Petrified
51 or more years – Ancient
I think anything beyond dusty has little to no effect on recruiting, considering it occured several years before the recruit in question was even born. The only way that has an effect is if there are many such banners, specifically UCLA. Even then, the pull isn’t all that great, as evidenced by UCLA’s performance of the last few years.
Interesting Thought
I like this idea. If I had more time I’d go through and figure out how many of each schools have. I would bet that the teams with the most “fresh” and “recent” are the teams that consistently have top 10 recruiting classes.
mostly yes
the last 35 national champions are current recruiting powerhouses minus NC State, Maryland and Arkansas.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I think numbers
no matter how old help. Hell I wasn’t even alive when IU won their last, but seeing five of them hanging in the rafters of an empty gym gives me chills. It is a true legacy/history feeling. Get the same feeling when I walk into Hinkle Fieldhouse or sit down to take in a state championship. Then again, I’m a history nerd and so places like Shiloh, TN have a similar effect on me.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Agree on multiple banners
God forgive me, for I am about to sin…
I admit there is something cool about the banners in Assembly Hall. IU would fall under the category of “many such banners” I think. As you said, it brings about the air of a basketball legacy there. On a related note, kudos goes to someone at IU for the way the banners are presented there. The lone spotlight on each one, with all the other lights out you can get a real sense of basketball history hanging in the air, just like Hinkle Fieldhouse.
I agree
The fact there are five, and in four different decades, is a huge recruiting tool, because it shows IU rises with regularity. If you have only one or two and they are aged (Oregon, holy Cross, San Francisco, etc). it’s a little different.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
quick question on the scenario
if we get FFs do we also get NC appearances and just never win one?
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
do Purdue fans really think that they are
THE very best program to never win a championship? I’ll give you top 5 and maybe even top 3, but I feel like most college basketball aficionados would settle on Illinois as the best program to never win a title.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Jan 11, 2012 2:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think the argument could certainly be had
and it isn’t a without a doubt closed case, but I would say Temple, St. John’s and Illinois all have a dog in the fight.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
ah, Temple. I'd buy that.
I’d throw Memphis in the mix too if I didn’t despise them so much.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Jan 11, 2012 2:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
An interesting counter-argument
I put us ahead of Illinois because we have the most Big Ten titles of anyone and they stretch back over 100 years (first was in 1911). We have one of the most legendary players ever (Wooden) that was really the first great college star. We had another Player of the Year, two No. 1 overall draft picks, dozens of All-Americans, etc., but no titles.
If I were to pick a top five without a title I would go as follows:
1. Purdue – See Above
2. Illinois – Several Big Ten titles and five Finals Fours without a title
3. Houston – Also five Final Fours with no titles
4. Kansas State – Four Final Fours, no titles, and always second fiddle to Kansas
5. Memphis – consistently great, never over the top
Special Category:
BYU and Missouri: 50 combined NCAA tournament appearances with no Final Fours.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
I think our opinions differ
because it seems like you’re putting the emphasis on individual players and I tend to put it on the potential of the teams. Illinois has been a 5 seed or higher 9 times in the last 15 years and was a 1 seed twice. They’ve just had so many teams with the talent and chemistry to win it all and haven’t quite had the luck to get the banner. There’s also a bit of a recency bias with Illinois that gives them an edge over Purdue. A 2005 FF is a lot more recent than 1980. That may not be fair but most people would take it into account.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Jan 11, 2012 3:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It is debatable for sure.
I think it’s between Illinois and Purdue for sure though.
10 FFs, easily
10 straight years of being one of the top 4 programs in the country, over one year of winning it and being horrible for 10 years, easy decision.
Throwing out the logic that 10 straight years in the FF would more than likely end up with a championship (either through great recruits or just dump luck in a game), you would have a hard time arguing that recruiting would be better with a national championship and 10 bad years than it would with 10 straight great years.
Probably worth mentioning...
Butler only made it there 2 years in a row and everyone has no choice but to give them respect now. Even if they have a mediocre year this year.
To your call once more we rally....
I went with the National Championship
And it’s entirely selfish on my part. I want to see Purdue win a title in a revenue sport in my lifetime. My 20’s are circling the drain and with each gut-wrenching, heart-breaking late game collapse, I lose a few more months off the back end. I’m quite certain that the day my Boilers hoist a crystal football or the Wooden trophy, I will keel over and die. And if that means we play in the CIT for the following ten years, I will rest in peace in my old gold and black.
Lord, jager me strength.
by doublegoldandblack on Jan 11, 2012 4:44 PM EST reply actions
Honestly, 10 Final Fours would put us at the more elite level
than a championship. You know how many schools have at least 1 championship? A lot. With our previous two Final Fours there would be only five schools with more than us. Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, and UCLA. That is some very good company to be mentioned with.
All of those schools have at least 1 title
I’d rather win it all once than have Purdue be the Dan Marino of college basketball.
I bet you nearly everyone knows who Dan Marino is
A great QB, one of the most dominant ever. Mention Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, etc and a lot of people will have no idea what you are talking about. 10 straight Final Fours would be in the history books. It would dominate the news and make Izzo’s title of Mr March look pathetic. That kind of run would be in everyone’s memories for ever and would have huge amounts of impact on recruiting.
I'm sure they all know Marino
As the best quarterback to never win a superbowl. I want a trophy for Purdue – it’s selfish and perhaps shortsighted, but it’s the only time you go home without losing your last game.
Had Izzo not won the championship in 2000,
I guarantee you he would be known as the guy who gets there but can’t get it done. That’s how the media works.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Hammer and Rails
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
