Rotation at the 5
by TheBox on Dec 5, 2011 3:41 AM EST
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I hope Painter cuts down on the rotation at the 5. Each of the 3 bigs are getting around 10-15 minutes per game. I know they have different qualities about each, but bringing them in and out every few minutes, I dont see how any of them can get any rhythm going. Unless we are up against a huge center, I think he should start Lawson until he gets a few fouls (about 2 minutes in probably) then put in Chooch. That way Lawson knows if he fouls too much he gets to sit on the bench, or else he gets to play major minutes. Its not like he is going to foul at a faster rate when starting as compared to coming in later in the game. If Chooch gets in foul trouble too then put Carroll in. With Lawson, we get a decent scorer around the bucket (67%), and a shot blocker & rebound threat. With Chooch we only get a big body and the occasional extra stat. With Carroll, we get a liability on both ends IMO. With Lawson in the game, its like 5 players against 5, with Chooch its 4.5 vs 5 and with Carroll its pretty much 4 against 5 or worse.
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Its more matchup dependent then you think.
All of the 3 have their flaws. All of the 3 will have their up games and down games as the season wears on. Lawson gets the most minutes, but they should be split between the 4 and 5 if he can stay out of foul trouble. Here’s what they all need to do to play more.
Lawson
-Stop Fouling
-Move better in the offense
-Make Free Throws
Marcius
-Make Free Throws
-Stop getting 3 second calls
-Dunk everything close to the rim.
Carrol
-Stop Traveling
-Get physical down low on Offense
-knock down open jumpers like we know you can
Ignorance can be fixed. Stupidity is forever.
Enough man
No, Carroll is likely not going to make the impact we all hoped he could but seriously the amount of hating he’s taken on this site is ridiculous.
Some of the players read this site so I’m sure he knows how the fans feel by now but that doesn’t mean you have to pile on every chance you get.
by Zorak84 on Dec 6, 2011 2:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Amen
I wholeheartedly agree. Throwing our current players under the bus is just not gonna help solve the problem. Be supportive. My rule of thumb is: criticism, yes; trashing, no.
Confidence
With Marcius, Carroll and Lawson, it is all about confidence. Lawson plays with the most confidence and that is why we like him more. If Carroll could just knock down a few j’s, I think it would do a world of good. Maybe when we play our next cupcake, we can run some out of bounds plays where Carroll can get an open look or three at some 15 footers. I hope they try that as the dividends could pay off later.
x2
A lot of these are about confidence. Lawson plays with abandonment. He has nothing to lose. He was supposed to be red-shirted and not getting to play in the first place. Painter even asks him to play reckless.
With Carroll and Sandi, they make mistakes, get yelled at, and they are timid. They are worried of making the mistakes and getting yelled at again, and hence they play scared. It shows.
I don’t know how to fix that. But if we want production from TC and SM, that’s what Painter needs to do. For whatever reason, it works with Ryno last year. He now plays with A LOT of confidence, and you can see in his shots.
So yes, I’d support the idea of running plays for the bigs, esp. pick-and-roll. Keep doing those until they are confident, that they feel they can make all the lay-up bunnies in their dream. If we want to go far in March, we need to consistently get production from at least one of the bigs every game.
Setting Carrol up for three's off the inbound?
I agree that his biggest problem is a lack of confidence, but in no way, shape or form should Carrol be the go to guy on a set play for a jump shot, nor should a 15 foot jumper be the bread and butter shot of someone his size.
He needs to work on making some layups and putbacks with confidence- if he can’t make those, then he has no business playing college BB. Not trying to be mean, but it’s true.
BTFU!
by BoilerAdam on Dec 5, 2011 9:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not setting him up for a three...
He said “for a shot or three” in the sense of 1-3 shots, not the shot being a three.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Dec 5, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
My bad
In quickly reading I saw “…or three” as “for three.”
Still, I rest my case that he should not be hanging his hat on a 15 foot jumper, and needs to learn to play down low. Not saying he has to be a back to the basket kind of guy, or spend his entire time down low (he’s not a true center after all) but with his size layups and put-backs should be automatic. If he has a good stroke from 15 feet (which he does) then that’s a bonus.
I think he knows how to do it, it’s just a matter of game day confidence. You can tell that one minor minor mistake has him flustered for the rest of the game.
BTFU!
Carroll can hit the 15 footer
After watching the last game, I am more confident about Carroll’s 15 footer than his layups.
I know he can hit it
Again, my point being that it’s not what we need most from him right now.
BTFU!
by BoilerAdam on Dec 6, 2011 9:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Right, but what we need most from him is his confidence back.
To do that, you go back to your bread-and-butter thing you trust the most. Which for him is his 15-footer. Admittedly that’s a sub-optimal bread and butter, but you build with what you have. Trying to push him into an uncomfortable role when his confidence is at it’s lowest won’t work. Let him get his confidence back, THEN ask him to do all those things, which he does need to do, I agree.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Dec 6, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
x2
Kids are a lot more willing to try new things when they are confident and comfortable. When they are timid and scared, you need to boost them up first by getting them to do sth they do well.
Frankly, TC plays more like a 4 than a 5. He is a pick-and-pop guy whereas Sandi/Lawson are pick-and-roll guys. So run one version w/TC and another w/S&L. Make it their bread-and-butter shot, and when other teams try to shut down Robbie and Ryne, run these plays b/c no one gives a damn to our bigs, and they have to make them pay.
All three have glaring flaws, no doubt
That’s why it has to be done by committee. Given what we know about all three, are you willing to give the keys to any one of them? These are the horses we brought to race with and, sure, none of us love our options. As a side note, how smart does Painter look for grabbing Hammons now??? Imagine how different we will look with a legit 7 foot center anchoring the five spot? Look, we would’ve all LOVED to have Harris, but Hammons addresses the greatest need. I think we can replace Ryno by committee shooting the three and RJ will grow into a good PG to replace LewJack, though that won’t be immediate. There’s obviously no replacing a guy like Hummel, but I think Painter’s got something going talent-wise in building a complete team for the future. I just hope it materializes into what everyone is dying to see…..
by One of these days on Dec 6, 2011 8:33 AM EST reply actions
Agree
Absolutely, have to be done by committee.
The only thing is, you are making Hammons sound like Greg Oden. I am excited about a legit 7-footer, but in most of the articles I’ve read, Hammons will be a project. He has GREAT POTENTIAL, which in other words, hasn’t been reflected in real games. (Although that may change with his recent MVP against Panea and the La Lumiere guys, still I won’t put way too much hope. At one point, TMill got me excited about TC too.)
No, I agree
He’s not Greg Oden….he just addresses our greatest need and does so in a big way. On paper, our 2012 class may not be top ten in the country, but I think that class, when coupled with the players already on the team can be awfully special. CMP has done a great job at closing our biggest gaps.
by One of these days on Dec 6, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
It looks even better
when you look at 2013 added onto that. Scott, Smotherman, and Stephens should add on even more scoring.
by Jackson Brunner on Dec 6, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
I have a problem
With centers who miss open layups. We needed those points it turned out. If a guy with his skill set (which is limitted but could still be helpful) misses layups, then he has no spot in the game in my eyes. Sorry. That’s just the way it is.
Looks like Painter is pushing his bigs now
He is calling them out publicly that they need to do a better job. It’ll be interesting to see how the bigs respond. I think the bigs will do well for the rest of Decembers against the cupcakes. Bigger test is how they do in the B1G, which is why we need the cupcakes to help them build confidence. Really, there are 3 things for each big to do:
Run the floor (don’t get lazy, we have 3 guys sharing the 40 minutes)
Rebound (don’t get out-rebounded by LewJack again!)
Defend (w/o fouling!)
and as a bonus,
either you pick and roll, or pick and pop. And then FINISH underneath the basket (or in TC’s case, knock down the little 15-foot jumper). Is it too much to have at least one player stepping up in each game for that spot? (Doesn’t have to be the same person all the time, but at least one)
http://www.jconline.com/article/20111206/SPORTS02010201/112060317/Purdue-centers-production-lacking
“Everybody at that spot has to do a better job of being more consistent,” Painter said Monday morning. "Initially, we need them to run, rebound and defend, and know what is going on.
“We’re not getting that right now from that spot, especially the (Xavier) game. You have to have more production. Those guys have to be more active and do a better job.”
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