Roadmap of success for the football team
Since everyone is saying about our Class of 2012 is about the best class we have had in a while, I take a look at the last 5 classes we've had and there are plenty of surprises. Here is a sample of notable names I find from Rivals. The numbers in parenthesis is the Rivals rating and its star rating:
Class of 2007: Brian Ellis (5.9, 4*), Ryan Kerrigan (5.6, 3*), Jared Crank (5.2, 2*), Gerald Gooden (5.3, 2*), Joe Holland (5.5, 3*), , Justin Siller (5.7, 3*)
Class of 2008: Ralph Bolden (5.6, 3*), Dwayne Beckford (5.4, 2*), Albert Evans (5.5, 3*), Ken Plue (6.0, 4*), CTB (5.2, 2*), Carson Wiggs (5.4, 2*)
Class of 2009: Gary Bush (5.5, 3*), Keith Carlos (5.2, 2*), Antavian Edison (4.9, 2*), Rob Henry (5.5, 3*), Josh Johnson (5.3, 2*), Al-Terek McBurse (5.8, 4*)
Class of 2010: Ricardo Allen (5.7, 3*), Bruce Gaston (5.7, 3*), Reggie Pegram (5.4, 2*), OJ Ross (5.8, 4*), Ryan Russell (5.4, 2*)
Class of 2011: Raheem Mostert (5.6, 3*), Akeem Shavers (5.4, 2*)
As we all know, the 4* didn't turn out well. None of the four 4* players (Ellis, Plue, ATM and Ross) was not in last night bowl game.
Rivals also get some seriously wrong. Among our starters last night a lot are only 2*: Gerald Gooden, Carson Wiggs, CTB, Edison, Josh Johnson, Akeem Shavers, Ryan Russell. Pegram is a 2* that scored 2 TDs for us. Dwayne Beckford would have been a starter has he not gotten himself suspended.
I can accept Carson Wiggs (since he's a K) and CTB as a 2*, but guys like Edison and Shavers?! Either their rating is seriously wrong, or the players have vastly improved, or both. If you go even further, Dustin Keller (an NFL first round pick) is a 2*, while the Class of 2005 has Jason Kacinko (5.8, 4*), Selwyn Lymon (6.0, 4*), JB Paxson (5.8, 4*), and Kyle Williams (5*) as 4* or better, yet none has a career remotely like Keller's, or many other 3* guys.
So looking at the numbers and the result, I have to conclude, the rating (at least Rival's) is really like a crap shoot. This is not necessarily a knock on Rivals. I mean, NFL scouts and GMs getting paid millions of dollars also got it seriously wrong (e.g. Jamarcus Russell? Ryan Leaf? Tom Brady?) too.
And looking at the Florida page, you'll see almost everyone is a 4* or 5* and only a very few 3* (whereas we are full of 2* and 3* and maybe one or two 4 or 5*), and thus I further believe that for us to have a successful program is to throw these rating out of the window and be unconventional. We just can't compete to get the "talent" that Florida and O$U is getting, just like the Oakland A's can't compete with the Yankees on free agents. But we can play Moneyball. We need to create our own niche (e.g. Tiller's Basketball on Grass) and get our type of players who succeed in our "system."
It seems that Danny Hope is following this strategy too. But he has two main problems. First, he doesn't have a "system" (unless you call a 2-QB system a viable system), so he just recruits speed but he doesn't know how to make use of the speed. Second, the niche he intends to develop is - and I am quoting him here - special team. Sure, special team can make the difference between winning and losing in a close game, but that cannot be your bread-and-butter.
To compete at the upper level, you need to be consistent. You don't necessarily need to be both great in offense and defense, but among defense, passing offense, and rushing offense, you have to have at least one that REALLY stands out big time (that's your niche), and at least decent in the other two. Relying on special teams and trickery may get you a score here or there, but in 60 minutes the better team (e.g. Wisky, Michigan) will eventually kill you.
So for all those who suggest spending millions and millions of dollars to get a big name coach so that we get big name recruits, I think not only is it unrealistic to expect Burke to spend the money, it isn't even the best way to get us to the next level. And not only is the big name coaches gone already for this year, it also only gets us into an arms race into spending on coaches but not addressing the real problem. We've seen how unreliable the rating system is, and our 4* recruits consistently underperform the 2* and 3* anyway. The bigger bang for the buck is not on recruiting but on getting someone (even as an assistant coach or coordinators) who can help crave a niche for our team (and I am NOT talking about special teams). When success comes on the field, we get a better chance of getting even better recruits. That, my friend, should be the roadmap of success for Purdue football.
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Looking at the class and current roster
I think Hope is developing Purdue into a running team. Five big o-linemen in this class, and it seems like we have a stable of RBs on the team now. I also think thats why Henry was going to start. Purdue wouldn’t have a tough time taking a page from Paul Johnson and start running the triple option. But seriously, I think Hope wants to establish Purdue as a legitimate run threat, much like Wisc did in their turn around. While also using our “cradle of QBs” motto to have a solid pass game.
I rather like the theory
by BoilermakerNation on Dec 29, 2011 4:54 AM EST reply actions
Thoughtful comments
Player development has to always be at the forefront of Purdue football. I don’t think we will ever be a program that recruits (and signs) 4 or 5 star players. We have to get those high 3 star players and develop them into solid football players. Danny Hope needs above average assistants to help with this.
our 4* recruits consistently underperform the 2* and 3* anyway
I don’t really see that as the truth. We haven’t had many four star guys, and a lot of them have been very good on the field. Lymon and Williams were both excellent on the field, pretty much right away. I don’t think anyone would complain about the performances of Baker, Bryant, Edwards or Pollard. Kirsch, Edwards and Pollard certainly could have done more if Tiller hadn’t decided he would rather play worse players than deal with any egos.
I’m not really sure why you’d even mention Paxson. He wanted to play baseball.
I didn't go as far back as Kirsch and Pollard
Just look at the list above for recent years. The 2* and 3* on that list collectively outperforms the 4*.
Kirsch, Edwards and Pollard certainly could have done more if Tiller hadn’t decided he would rather play worse players than deal with any egos.
Geez, if your big ego doesn’t allow you to play in the ultimate team sports as a team member, then you don’t deserve to play, regardless of talent. Not saying Tiller is without blame here, but that’s just a lame excuse for a player to not have played better.
It wasn't about playing better.
Tiller didn’t like Kirsch’s attitude, so he put Painter on the field. That move was the beginning of the complete descent into mediocrity.
by Ray Williams? on Dec 29, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Then what is it about?
If you have a poor attitude, poor work ethic, poor off-court behavior, you didn’t get to play no matter how many stars you come with. Simple as that. This is true anywhere. Just b/c u are big and fast don’t entitle you to be an asshole. Look at AJ Hammons getting benched now. Don’t blame it all on the coach. The player shares some responsibility too. Bottom line is the 4* in the list above collectively underperforms. A lot of 2* and 3* are playing more and better.
have you been paying attention?
Any four or five star we have gotten has either barely made the field or has been an abject disaster.
O.J. Ross, Ken Plue, and Robert Marve were the only four stars on this year’s roster. Al-Terek McBurse, Kyle Williams, Garrett Bushong, and the like have been some of the more successful ones
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
So, Baker, Bryant, Edwards and Pollard were what?
How many 2 & 3 star guys have we seen do far less than the guys that you’re mentioning?
Obviously we’re going to see better results from the lower star prospects. WE HAVE TWENTY TIMES AS MANY OF THEM.
by Ray Williams? on Dec 29, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, look at the post
The main focus is on Class of 2007 and after where Hope is involved in recruiting. Dunno why u keep bringing up recruits from ancient history. U wanna talk about the recruits we had on the Rose Bowl team in the sixties?
Just find me one 4* recruit in the last 4 yrs that play better than a 2* like Akeem Shavers. The RATIO (not absolute number) of 2* starting is still higher than the number of 4* starting this year.
Dude, your post is nonsense.
We have three four star recruits on the team, one is the best quarterback we have, and one is the best offensive lineman we have, benched for unknown reasons. The other is a contributor at receiver.
We have 80+ recruits with lower star rankings. A few of them are pretty good. Most of them aren’t.
You know why we don’t have four star players starting this year? It’s because we don’t sign any. You could list twenty other guys from the few that you cherry picked. You have four guys listed with four stars. Four. Even with that, we still have two of our best players as one-time four star recruits.
by Ray Williams? on Dec 29, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, if you aren't playing, it doesn't matter how many stars you have
You can have tons of excuses. Academic. Attitude. Work ethic. Legal trouble. Ego. Injuries. Misfit. Whatever. But if you aren’t playing, you aren’t producing, and you ain’t contributing. Period.
You can look at McD AA in bball. Many don’t even star in college, let alone make it to the NBA. For the ones that don’t, you can always find one (or more) excuse from the list above. It ain’t matter whatsoever.
The truth is somewhere in the middle
It seems most of our 4* guys have off field issues at some point, ATM is the only one I can really think of that just wasn’t very good. It’s true that we are always gonna start more 2 and 3* guys because we have a ton of them every year and maybe 1 or 2 4*s. Anyone who’s taken basic stats knows that a 6 person sample size can’t really tell you anything. Hopefully OJ and Plue get back next year, Siller made the most of his second chance.
Who isn’t playing? Marve plays, less than most think he should, but he’s certainly available and better than the guy ahead of him. Plue will probably be a four year starter, but he’s already started for three years. Ross had 578 total yards this season (interestingly, one more than Shavers).
If your point is not to sign guys that won’t qualify academically, great, I agree, otherwise, your point has no basis in reality.
In proportion, the four star players are providing much more than the rest of the team. Of the four that could have been available this season (Marve, Ross, Plue, McBurse, Ellis would have used his eligibilty by now), two were significant contributors. A third will most likely end up starting 30+ games in his career (could get 40+), playing at a very high level. Even McBurse, unequivocal bust Al-Terek McBurse, was the team’s #1 kickoff returner as a true freshman and a sophomore. It is obvious that it is absolutely ridiculous to denigrate the production from that group of players. If the other players produced anywhere near that level, on average, we might not be such a bastion of mediocrity.
by Ray Williams? on Dec 30, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
- KO returner in what? The country? B1G? Oh I get it, maybe for this team, right? Big deal. Sandi is also our #1 center. What’s his numbers compared to say, Mostert, who is a mere 3*?
"The best QB we have"
is Rob Henry. You’re kidding yourself if you think its Marve.
by Jackson Brunner on Dec 30, 2011 2:11 AM EST up reply actions
What the hell is up with you and Marve?
Seriously, did he run over your dog or something?
I’ve always respected your opinion, even if I sometimes thought it was to feel-good optimistic. But this Marve hate, this is something else, and I never expected this sort of thing out of you of all people.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Dec 30, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Love this year's recruiting class
Not necessarily because of the big names but because of the depth and speed. I’m really excited to see this BJ Knauf guy in action in a few years even though he isn’t that highly touted.
It’s always good to have training camp battles and a 25 person class is really gonna help our depth.
The new building helps.
Hopefully we can shed the injury bug, and start contending for division titles soon.
The best QB we have is
not Rob Henry. Everybody got a raging boner after that Northwestern win last year, but he really was not that good, especially throwing the ball in any other game (i know he was hurt, but i dont think he can throw the ball wel.). Marve is our best pure passer, but makes more mistakes than TerBush. They all have flaws, but if I had to choose one, it would be marve.

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