Second Take: Purdue v. High Point
by Purdue_Pete on Nov 15, 2011 9:58 AM EST
in Men's Basketball
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PrintIn the wake of High Point's near-fatal assault on Purdue, it's certainly within reason to be a little concerned terrified for the future of this team.
After all, High Point was supposed to be a glorified exhibition game and a last minute tune-up for the Puerto Rico Tipoff.
Unfortunately Purdue left for Puerto Rico a day early.
It doesn't really take crime scene investigator to piece together the issues that led to Purdue's horrendous play. In fact, the box score (LINK) alone should provide enough material for Matt Painter to schedule a season's worth or practices.
Travis laid out Purdue's issues nicely: Playing against the zone, playing with a sense of urgency, and free throws are all glaring mistakes that need to be corrected. I would also add feeding the post (even at a minimal capacity), better movement off the ball, and doing a better job playing to their strengths (there is no reason why Kelsey Barlow should be taking a baseline three when the game is on the line).
Despite the near consensus in the comments and on the message boards, a game like last night wasn't all negative. Beyond the limited positives from the game itself, there are many reasons to be thankful for the events that transpired.
Here are a couple of reasons that we can be thankful for the scare:
- In retrospect, Purdue's 62 point blow-out against Northern Illinois may have been a bit of a curse. As much as we hate to admit it, the lopsided victory was just as much as NIU being young and...well....bad...than it is was about Purdue being great. This inflated confidence likely impacted the team as much as it impacted our expectations. Last night served as a welcomed reminder that nothing can be taken for granted this season. It's foolish to expect to seamlessly transition into the post-Smooge and JJ era without a hiccup or two and doing so is likely disrespecting their legacy. If Purdue didn't learn this lesson against High Point, they would have certainly figured it out against Iona or whoever else they may play in PR. In my opinion, we should be thankful that Purdue was given the stark reminder of who they are and still managed to limp away with a victory.
- Assuming you are Purdue football fans, you should be very familiar with the adage ‘A win is a win is a win is a win.' I am sure it's no consolation right now, but the difference between a close win against High Point and a loss is night and day. Not only would a loss be devastating to Purdue's RPI and chances of quickly climbing back into the top 25, but it would be crushing to this young team's confidence. They can now put the game behind them and learn from it.
- If they weren't doing it before, there's no question Purdue will be working on beating the 2-3 zone in practice. After last night's game, there is no question that many teams will have identified a major gap in Purdue's armor. Maybe now the team will pay extra attention during these drills.
- As I wrote in the pre-game post, it's difficult to assess the character of the team until they have dealt with a variety of challenges and situations. While it's still too early to make any generalizations about this team, how they respond in against Iona and the during the rest of the Puerto Rico Tipoff will be very telling. I understand this was not the circumstances we'd like to experience these types of challenges, but Purdue did gain valuable experience playing in a close game with little momentum or energy to draw from.
Last night's game was a gut check. How they respond against a tough Iona team will serve as a great indicator of what kind of team we will have.
Everyone has a plan ‘till they get punched in the mouth. (Yup, I just quoted Mike Tyson.)
Regardless of the win, Purdue season was punched in the mouth last night. Now let's see how they fight back.
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I was about to explode
when Barlow kept taking all those outside shots. What a frustrating game. Really hope Iona doesn’t play a zone against us.
#FireAndyReid
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."
Barlow's Attitude
He looked like when he came in his energy was low and instead of driving like he does, he was like, " I’ll just shoot the 3 and see how they like that." Painter should have been in his face about those shots. Terrible.
Defensive
My first take watching Purdue last night is: For a team that has got by on playing defense when the offense isn’t there…this team is not there …yet. Did we get any transition baskets ? We’ll have a tough time defending quick guards or bigs that can score. TJ looks like he still not 100% healthy and can’t guard right now. Did Barlow (our lock down guy) do anything that would make you feel he can stop someone ? Ryan, great offensive threat and active rebounder, but HP just kept going at him one on one with success. Sandi, may be improved, but in Big 10 play, I’m not sure how he’ll hold up without fouling out. Not recruiting an established “big” vs. a project behind JJ might be difficult to overcome this year. He made up for a lot of defensive issues last year with his jumping and blocking ability. Can you imagine this team “without Hummel” (who still looks like his hop is not totally there yet) like it was supposed to be ??? That would make for a very tough season. Matty P is going to earn his salary this year. I think he can do it, but this team needs to get healthy to defend and rebound. Defense has always carried us through… and will have to this year if we’re to be succesful.
Glad they won...
Perhaps this will work in Purdue’s favor in many ways…
A blow-out of HP might have made us over-confident. The most immediate impact this game could have is giving Iona an over-confidence and making Purdue realize that they need to play much-improved to get a W on Thursday. Iona could easily have been a loss (of course, still could be), but I think this will give us even more incentive to win. We didn’t lose the game and now could come up with an additional W. If that happens, it is a win-win for the team…
Immediate Impact - The Flip Side
You could also argue that the High Point game gives Iona, and the rest of our potential PR opponents, a video template of how to attack this Purdue team.
Do a job, Matty!
"There's no hope until Hope is gone!"
very true...
However, with a Painter-coached team I have more confidence that there will be adjustments made (unlike, say, a Hope-coached team). The team will come out with a lot more energy and defensive-intensity, they will be more focused on how to properly bust the zone, and mentally the team will have their heads on straight (unlike most during the game last night).
Hi All, Northwestern Fan Here...
(Yes there are at least a couple Northwestern basketball fans that do in fact exist)
I see that some of you are hitting the panic button, and there’s certainly nothing wrong with that. But if anything, I think this is going to really help your team in the long run. To me, Hummel is one of the best leaders in all of college basketball, and I’m scared to see how determined this “close-call” is going to make him. It’s already showing in the work he put in after the game… And Smith’s huge game is proving that he is becoming a game-changer as well.
And hey, don’t forget this: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4620949
I know that was just an exhibition, but that Syracuse team ended up 30-5 when it was all said and done…
Anyway, best of luck with the rest of the season. Stay healthy, lose in Evanston, and then win the rest :)
by Nirvana91 on Nov 15, 2011 10:38 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Classy post
Good luck to your cats as well, I’m hoping as always that this is your year to make the tournament. Do you think you will? Also, out of curiosity, what do you think of your new floor?
Thanks
I like the new floor. However, based on what I have seen and heard from other fans, it looks like I am in the minority. (click here for a view) A lot of people don’t like the fact that there are different shades of purple on the floor. People think that it should all be one shade. I sort of agree, but I still think the staining is cool nonetheless.
As far as the tournament goes…I’m taking a wait and see attitude. The loss of Juice Thompson (my favorite NU player of all-time) is a killer in my opinion. Shurna is great and will hopefully get some conference honors, but I’m more concerned about losing our floor general and the heart and soul of our team.
That all having been said, there are a couple of freshmen that have come in that can hopefully contribute some meaningful minutes, and everybody’s favorite guy to hate, Luka Mirkovic, looks to have bulked up a bit. In fact, the whole team looks a lot more “cut” than what you’d normally expect from NU players. I’m hoping that Drew Crawford and Jershon Cobb will have breakout years, but they have both battled injuries for a long time, so we’ll see.
If I had to lay money on it I would say that NU will not make the tournament, but I will still go hoarse cheering them on either way. Could this be the magical year? It is all going to depend on the conference season. Go above .500, and we should be in. There is also a home game against Baylor coming up (12/4) that will really help show if this team is actually any good.
Wofford Wake Up
Young/inexperienced players need a wake up game… anyone remember Wofford? Had some pretty good names on that team…
http://purdue.rivals.com/bschedule.asp?Team=PURDUE&year=2007
I put this in same category, only this time we got a W. You dont learn anything about the team with 60-point blowouts except how to execute ally-oops. Let’s worry when we start slipping in big10 standings.
Aigh, you beat me by 3 minutes!
Though actually we could also compare this game to the narrow Lipscomb win. The team had a small lead for most of the game, lost it, then won on a late 3.
The coaching staff apparently wasn’t expecting Lipscomb to play a zone and deliberately scheduled man-to-man-heavy teams.
As I recall the team also had serious growing pains at Missouri later, allowing a 25-4 run to end the game (though a lot on free throws) in the last 10 minutes once Missouri switched to a zone.
by Beavis Beefcake on Nov 15, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I posted yesterday
that we won’t know anything about this team until we play someone at least respectable, as you don’t get anything out of beating down the #285 team in Div 1.
Well I was wrong. I did learn something, this team has some glaring problems, particularly on the offensive end.
There is Hummel who everyone knows about. Smith is a great jump shooter. Outside of that…ughhh…a really massive drop off to something in between mediocre and not D1 worthy. The lack of inside presence is going to kill this team come conference time. TC couldn’t even manage a layup that RH gift-wrapped for him…and sadly he’s the starter. The only bright spot was the hops on Lawson.
Going to be a long year, where each W is going to come from griding it out. 20-11 would be a success.
Seriously, not D1 worthy or mediocre?
LewJack is bothered by a foot ailment, is not D1 worthy? HE IS A TOP BIG TEN GUARD! AJ in his 2nd game looks like damn good already, but you don’t think he is D1 worthy? Terone showed great flashes last year and is dealing with a knee injury, Byrd will play great defense, rebound and bring a ton of energy which was sorely needed last night, and Lawson is in his 2nd game.
We don’t need gloom and doom after the 2nd win of the year. Save it until later in the season if it is still needed after we get some body of work.
by PurdueBoiler1995 on Nov 15, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
He has a point on our bigs.
Sandi didn’t play much yesterday, but TC really, REALLY, needs to step up his game. That missed layup should have been a dunk. He doesn’t box people out when going for rebounds. He is more content shooting jumpers than being down low. Lawson could be that kind of player, but he is coming off an ACL injury and is just a freshman.
I posted this up there too but...
Hale is more of a Hummel style player. No offense to Hale, but he isn’t as good as Hummel either. He is too scrawny to be down under the basket. Lawson and Sandi are our best bets, but Sandi was apparently a little hurt and Lawson needs experience.
Achilles injury
not an ACL and yes donnie is thin but he does have inside moves plus athleticism. If he is red-shirting fine but if not there is a chance he could help us in the post. Sandi didnt get chances when he was in and I agree on TC, he had more than one play when he needed to go up and finish with authority.
by jack'sIUdisdain on Nov 16, 2011 7:20 AM EST up reply actions
Sandi...
Sandi must look good in practice cause he’s practicing against us…so not a good measuring stick. We’ll miss JJ’s ability to swat shots away this year (Lawson…maybe ?), but I’ve got a feeling there’s going to be a lot of guards going right at the basket on us.
AJ
AJ will score, as will DJ. But we can’t go all year being a jump-shooting team. How the inside game develops will determine if we have the chops to knock off any of the top B10 teams.
I still don’t like red shirting Hale. I think by tournament time he will be a bit bigger and stronger, and he is much better offensively than Sandi will ever be. Seriously, half the time Sandi doesn’t look much better than last year. Painter keeps saying he has the talent, he just needs to "get comfortable.’ We have alot of our eggs in his basket, and it does not look promising at the moment. Right now we will get eaten up by any team with a strong inside presence, and I don’t just mean Sullinger.
Travis Carroll is more of a tweaner – between 4 and 5 than a true 5, kinda like Calasan was.
I do like me some Lawson, tho. If he can stay out of foul trouble….
Me too
I don’t think we’ll be as bad as we looked yesterday for most of the season, but we definitely have some offensive and rebounding problems that need to be fixed. I think how the team responds this weekend will be a greater indicator of how the season will go than yesterday. If we can respond to adversity and blow out iona, I’ll be happy again.
We'll be fine
It is early and we will learn. Lots of the BIg Ten (Minnesota, michigan, etc.) is struggling a bit now.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
I might be an optimist
but I am not overly concerned YET. To me, the shortcomings seem very fixable (minus the rebounding woes). With Lewjack, Hummel, TJ, (and now Byrd) battling injuries, coupled with experience with new roles, I can see this team clicking as time progresses. To me it seems as if they are still struggling to figure out who the go-to players will be. Last year there was no question where the ball was going. Now I think there is a little hesitation and worry about being selfish..
- Contributor/Editor/ All-around embarrassment at Hammer & Rails
- Follow my unintelligible musings at: @PurdueBBall
Sometimes it feels like that rebounding bugaboo will never go away...
But I agree the rest of the problems look fixable.
Burninating the peasants...
by Tracer Bullet 82 on Nov 15, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Injuries
Maybe Painter should suspend tackling drills during practice.
"There's no hope until Hope is gone!"
People forget what Matt can do
After we lost to Wofford in 2008, the sky was falling, IU fans were laughing at us, our awesome recruiting class was overrated, and football was more exciting (well, maybe not). We were 10-6 in non-conference but finished with a 15-3 Big ten conference record, 2nd in B1G with 3 freshman starters, and won a tournament game. Matt’s a GREAT coach. The team will adapt to personnel, just like it did after Hummel went down the first time. No one, I mean NO ONE predicted a Sweet 16 berth after the injury as the last couple of games of the regular season, we were terrible.
by PurdueBoiler1995 on Nov 15, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone forgets about Donnie Hale
Boxes out…can score…(Didn’t he lead his prep team in scoring last year)… Comon matty give this kid a chance….he could be a spark that changes the whole kit and kaboodle
Boxing out prep school kids is a lot different.
He was physically much bigger than most people he played against. He is far too scrawny to be brawling down under the basket in division 1 basketball, especially in the Big Ten. JJ got away with it because he was so much more skilled than a lot of the people he played against. Hale, not so much.
at this point
at least give the kid a shot…he cant be worse than that flat footed excuse for a layup from TC…
I see your point
Carrol’s lack of athletic ability is a huge liability on the floor. Sandi is pretty athletic, but a low basketball IQ. Lawson may gets more minutes at the 5 than anyone expected coming into the season. That said, Matt knows he has issues down low. That is why we have Jay Simpson and AJ HAmmons coming in next year.
by PurdueBoiler1995 on Nov 15, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
I dont get it
you keep selling donnie short. He was playing against a bunch of other college recruits at prep school not 6’4" high school kids. Yes the kid needs to get thicker but he has a lot of talent.
by jack'sIUdisdain on Nov 16, 2011 7:31 AM EST up reply actions
Redshirt ???
I think Painter wanted to redshirt Lawson, that’s the way it sounded right up until the moment he spoke to his dad. I wonder if his dad said, “play him or we’re out of here” ??? It just seemed funny that it all changed from what MP had been saying. Donnie Hale can flat out score and jump. Whether he can defend might be a big issue, but the kid has hops and can shoot.
Lawson is playin well.
no way you can redshirt him. id like to see both of them play
"The goal remains the same"
by TimeToPlayHard on Nov 16, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
thoughts
It was good to see that we were able to hit some clutch shots down the stretch, even though we put ourselves in that position. If we would have had a normal ft shooting night, we win by 10. Ultimately I think this game will be more of a positive then a negative, as long as we start corecting the issues.
by TheBox on Nov 15, 2011 1:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
2 points
First, we missed 13 FF’s… If we make just 70% of them, its a 9 point win instead of 2.
Second, for what ever reason, Purdue always struggles in the first game of the year where we see a zone. Then we seem to pick it up later as the team starts to gel on offense and the guys settle into their roles. If I remember correctly, Richmond played a zone last year, and we fell into the same pattern of chucking up threes (even JJ). Luckily, it worked out this time since Ryne had a hot hand. I would expect that we practice zone penetration a lot this week, and won’t have as many issues the next time.
BTFU!
The only thing
That makes me feel good at all about this is that we usually lose that game instead of win it…
Pressure
That was pretty frightening last night. One silver lining I haven’t seen mentioned yet is the team’s exposure to a close game pressure situation.
The ability to win tight games is based, in part, on a set of skills and character elements that can be taught and refined. Do it often enough and the team develops an attitude that it is always capable of coming out on top when the game is over.
One problem with playing cupcakes before conference season is that those games don’t develop close game pressure skills – well, not normally.
Hopefully, Matty will focus on that topic right after a marathon free throw clinic.
"There's no hope until Hope is gone!"
I'm not worried
about how close the game was and who the opponent was. I have confidence that Painter will get the most out of this team. What does concern me is that we can’t get any production from our bigs in two games where they had a advantage over the other team. I can’t see why Hale doesn’t get a chance, he can’t play any worse than Carroll or Marcius have so far.
no worries
This one reminded me of the scare at Alabama a couple of years ago. Young, athletic team playing something other than a straight-up man-to-man. HP played a great game, and had some lights out shooters. They are going to pick off a major team or two. Oakland surprised some folks last year (tho we weren’t one of them)
At least our eyes will be open going into PR.
>Hoosier by birth, Boilermaker by the grace of God
>Don't cry, MSU - It's just a game...
by sea.of.white on Nov 16, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Finally Watched It
I just finished watching the High Point game, and I think there is a lot to we can learn from the game.
I think the thing that stood out to me the most was the number of different lineups we used down the stretch. Seemed like Painter is still trying to figure out who should be on the floor down the stretch. I’m sure as the season moves along everyone’s roles will become more defined.
We missed DJ Byrd! DJ is a big asset against the 2-3 zone because he is very good in the high post and he can step out and hit 3’s. We need Robbie on the wing vs. the 2-3 because he can shoot and attack. I think the NIU game really hurt us off the bat. We had way to many guys putting up 3’s instead of attacking the zone. Our shooters are Smith, AJ, Hummel and Byrd (to an extent). We don’t need Barlow, LewJack or Terone shooting 3’s with 20 seconds left on the shot clouck, those 3 need to attack and penetrate vs. the zone. Lawson needs to play a ton vs. the zone because he can slip through the zone and finish at the rim. TC needs to play sparingly vs. a zone and Sandi shouldn’t play at all, because he doesn’t move as well through a zone.
The defense was a little concerning, but I think that has to do a lot with the different lineups. I know everyone likes to harp on rebounding, but I didn’t think it was bad, except for a portion early in the second. Every team has their staple, Purdue’s is force TO’s (which we didn’t do too well at) and take care of the ball. MSU’s is rebounding, but they don’t take care of the ball at all. I’m sure they wished they didn’t turn the ball over as much as we wished we rebounded better.
Oh and obviously free throws. Very impressed with AJ taking ownership of missing the first 2 and getting the team off to a bad start, and then getting in the gym with Rob and shooting free throws at 11 PM last night. I think Rob’s misses had a lot to do with the 38 minutes he played. Painter can’t do that too him this early, especially in Puerto Rico.
I blamed the shortened offseason.
The team had less time to prepare, and the coaches couldn’t install their offensive philosophy in the short amount of time given to them. If the players had not been so greedy, I think we would have seen a much better prepared team.
#FireAndyReid
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."
Well said, Dr Brown
This is funny now, but in the future, after schools have been allowed to pay their athletes for a decade or so, it could be sad fact. Like today, the game and the fans will suffer while the lawyers get rich.
"There's no hope until Hope is gone!"
Speaking of lawyers...
Just look at the NFL (and NBA now). The players sue the league, went to court, made a big fuss, wasted the judges’ time and resources, and then and only then would they come to terms and have a new CBA, and they dropped all the suits. In the end, it just makes everyone suffer except for the lawyers.
Why is everyone so freakin' worried!?!
It’s the SECOND game!!! As mentioned earlier, this stuff happens quite a bit (U of I beating Tennessee last year – still made the dance, you already saw when we last to Wofford but still made it to the sweet 16, Syracuse losing to a DII school, Vandy losing to a DII school this year) I can keep going…are you going to tell me that Vandy all of a sudden now is a “mediocre D1 program”??? Come on! It’s the second game..Painter isn’t a GREAT coach just b/c he had JJ and Moore….he’ll get it figured out. That’s what the beginning of the year is for, so you have it figured out going into conference play..
Spin it around the other way, IU went 9-0 and blew out all the “cupcakes” last year…look how that turned out for them. I’m not worried b/c we only won by 2, a win is a win no matter how ugly it is! Yes, there are some issues but EVERYONE should know, Painter sees those too and they are working on them in practice….no reason call it a season just b/c of one game!!!
by BringbackReggie#31 on Nov 16, 2011 10:09 AM EST reply actions
I think it's b/c a lot of ppl (myself included) have unrealistic expectation ...
and the game pulled them back to reality. And while you can cite many examples of how teams do poorly early in the season and bounced back, there are many more examples where teams start off slowly and just keeps going down hill and never recover, so there can be legitimate concern.
Bottom line, worrying about your favorite team is what fans do all the time. If the team is blowing the opponent by 60 pts, we worry that the competition is not good enough; if we win by 2, we worry that we aren’t good enough; if we lose, we think the world is ending. That is what fans do. The other extreme is apathy. Don’t care. Don’t give a damn. Like how I feel about the NBA right now.
Unrealisic expectations
To add to that, even the good times lose every now and then. The record-setting winning streaks Purdue had with JJ/EM/RH raised the bar to very unrealistic heights.
And to your point boilerslim, the people that post are the people that will sound the alarm when things go down hill (but also get a little too rah-rah when things are going well).
- Contributor/Editor/ All-around embarrassment at Hammer & Rails
- Follow my unintelligible musings at: @PurdueBBall
I'd say it's just mood swings
We wanted to be more optimistic than we were.
It’s fun to expect more than we initially expected. And I think it’s healthier to use our mood swings on sports than real life. Not that it totally excuses those of us who need to bust out that way (myself included,) but it is a decent justification.
And along those lines, #9 Pitt, who I think’ll be ok, lost at home too. By double digits. These things happen. It’s almost expected you’ll have one downer game.
It’s two in a row that are worrisome—as with UCLA right now—especially when they apparently should have an experienced team.
by Beavis Beefcake on Nov 17, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
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