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Welcome A.J. Hammons

(Sorry for the lateness of this post. The news broke last night as I was going to bed and I had to sub teach away from internet most of the morning. As you read this I am likely driving toward State College, PA)

Our friends in Bloomington were awful proud of themselves a few months ago when Rivals rated them as the #1 recruiting class in the country for 2012. Led by players like Hanner Perea and Kevin Ferrell, they have some talent coming in that will try to lead the program back. Many Hoosier fans perceived their return as a God-given right, and the top recruiting class was evidence of that. They mocked up for our own recruiting efforts of merely being a top 10 class.

As one of their former coaches would say, "Not so fast, my friend."

I use Indiana as an example because, like it or not, we're going to be compared to them in this state even though we're more on par with Michigan State and Ohio State in the conference. We really need to look at this class as Tupac's "Hit ‘em up". "Cody's five stars couldn't stop me, I took it smiled."

Star-divide

You see, the 2012 classes are not solidified. Our original group of Kyle Mollock, Rapheal Davis, and Jay Simpson was a solid class, but we've known about them for awhile. In the past few months alone we have seen Mollock decommit, only we turned him into Ronnie Johnson (younger brother of Terone Johnson). Patrick Bade then decided he would rather sit the bench for football instead of basketball, thus opening another spot for 2012. Last night we turned that scholarship into the big center we have coveted for some time.

I'm sure you know by now because of Twitter and the good folks at Boiled Sports, but we got A.J. Hammons last night. Hammons is nothing less than a true center that when paired with the talent we have returning next season, can be an immediate impact player without the pressure of having to do everything from day one. As much as I want Gary Harris, we needed a big banger in the paint to make this team more versatile. We now have that banger.

You see, that is where we differ from Indiana at the moment. They have excellent talent coming in, but they are being asked to raise a team that has resided in the Big Ten's basement for the last three years. Cody Zeller this year makes them better, but few are expecting them to be an NCAA Tournament team immediately. Hammons, Simpson, Davis, and RJ come into a program that has recently won a Big Ten championship, has been a top four seed for two years running in the NCAA's, and is starting from a much higher place than the Hoosiers.

It is easier to reach the top when you start higher. If you're climbing Everest it's easier if you start at 20,000 feet than 15,000 feet. Right now, Indiana is at about sea level and we're at least on the Tibetan plateau. He will have every advantage that JaJuan Johnson never had. During JJ's four years here is what we had to help him in the post:

Nemanja Calasan - Not a true center and more of a power forward that shot threes for his two seasons.

Chris Reid - a practice player at best.

The Traitor - Left after one year

Robbie Hummel - injured for the last 1.25 seasons.

Carroll - A 6'10" freshman for one season that lacked the definition and experience to bang in the Big Ten.

Marcius - A center who had the size, but little basketball experience for one season.

Bade - Very green as a freshman, saw his minutes deteriorate as a sophomore.

Meanwhile, here is what Hammons will have:

Carroll - with two years of experience and ability to add bulk in the new weight room

Marcius - with two years of experience and hopefully more polish. His European hook shot could be a nice weapon

Lawson - He looks like a prototypical rebound and dunk guy. Just ask Ohio State how much they enjoyed Dallas Lauderdale doing that and only that.

Hale - Robbie 2.0?

Simpson - JJ 2.0?

Hammons gets all of that with him, not scattered across his four years like JJ had. JJ's best year came when he had the most help, but that was only with the limited Hanson Brothers this past season. Hammons will get no less than five other post players.

Of course, the biggest question now regards this entire class and if we are done adding guys. I am of course referring to Gary Harris. It seems like Indiana is botching the final stages of his recruitment in every way possible, and I am unsure of their scholarship situation in the first place. The easiest way to figure out our scholarship situation is to look at what we lose. This year Robbie Hummel, Lewis Jackson, and Ryne Smith will finish their eligibility. We also had an extra scholarship open with the departure of Bade, but it is filled right now by Dru Anthrop, who was rewarded with a scholarship this year because of the opening and his two years as a walk-on. We are technically full, with room for our one oversign.

The key player in the Gary Harris sweepstakes is John Hart, who is in his fourth year in the program, but third in eligibility. There have been rumors that he will graduate and finish his career this year, thus opening a spot for Harris. There is also the very unlikely, but possible, option that Harris throws a curveball and comes to Purdue for football, only to walk-on to the basketball team. His scholarship would then count towards football, not basketball.

On paper this class, with Harris, is virtually perfect and could unseat IU as the #1 class in the nation. We would get a starter caliber player at all five positions on the floor with RJ at the point, Harris as the athletic two, Davis as a solid and versatile three, Simpson at the four, and Hammons at the five. Better yet, Davis and Simpson are playing together this year already at LaLumiere, and they are learning the weaknesses of Perea's game too. Each player would have a talented older mentor for them. I'd imagine a senior Kelsey Barlow would start at the point next year based on experience. TJ will be a junior and likely a starter (and you know RJ knows how to play with him). D.J. Byrd would be a senior starter at the three. The Carroll-Marcius-Hale-Lawson group would be solid players too. I haven't even mentioned Anthony Johnson, a four-star shooting guard and potential three-point assassin that we had the luxury of redshirting. If he can come in and just be the guy that cans open jumper after open jumper because teams are worried about everyone else he will be a dangerous weapon.

One of my favorite things about Painter is that he sees how players fit together as a team. Instead of looking for great individual talent he looks for pieces that will fit within his system. He sees the offense and defense as one functioning unit as opposed to five separate parts. The team he has assembled for 2012-13 has all the pieces in the right place and even depth behind them. With superior talent than anything he has had in his time at Purdue, these guys can accomplish amazing things. Just look at how well the 2009-10 team was playing before That Game in Minneapolis. We had talent, depth, experience, and poise. As a result, we were destroying the competition because everyone was functioning as a single unit. This 2012 class has the ability to be better than that and they have more experienced pieces in place with them. They then can be the experienced guys when a talented 2013 and 2014 class gets there. Realistically, this class can dream of multiple Final Fours if they stick together.

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Comments

Display:

FTFY
I use Indiana as an example because we always do.

by rcpratt on Oct 14, 2011 10:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Hammons knows best.

The only question I’ve ever had about Hammons is his motor. He has all the physical tools to be successful on this level and the next. The fact that he chose the Boilers tells me a lot about the kid. He has to know what is expected. He knows he will be pushed like never before. He knows anything less than 100% will put him on the bench. He also knows Painter will help him be the very best he can be. Committing to Purdue tells me that he is up for the challenge. Good luck AJ!

by Hummel's figurines on Oct 14, 2011 10:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Several questions

1. Does it mean we can have either one of Gary Harris or Derek Willis? In 2013, as it stands now, we already have 13 scholarships given out. We might still get Harris (if we take away Sandi’s scholly, since it will be his 5th year), but there is no more room for Willis, even if he decides to join.

2. Any idea why Hammons dropped so much in the Rivals ranking (#124)? He is #78 at ESPN and #83 at Scout. I know lots of times ranking a lot of B.S. and varies greatly so not be surprised if they differ by 20 or 30, but from #78 to #124 is a big difference, and it looks like Rivals had him rated a lot higher earlier but only that he has slipped down a lot recently. Anyone knows anything?

3. Anyone watches Hammons play? I only saw several minutes on ESPN several months ago and I wasn’t totally impressed. He was just coasting without making any impact. Granted, it’s only several minutes so it isn’t an indication of anything. Just wanna hear if someone were able to provide better insights. Thx.

by charlespig on Oct 14, 2011 10:53 AM EDT reply actions  

Thoughts

1. With UL & UK offers to Willis now, I am not sure why he wouldnt pick one of them, especially since he is from KY and has stated how much of a fan of UL he has been. However, in regards to scholly’s, you never know where one may free up. If you look back at our recruits, there always seems to be a player that never makes it, or transfers, or something. Barlow’s lucky to still be on the team IMO. Harris could be a one and done if he were to blow up during his freshmen year. Doubt it but never know. Also, there’s prep school. I would guess there could be a max of 1 more for the 2013 class even with Harris.

2. I’ve noticed that their rankings never seem to match their articles, maybe they aren’t updated often.

by TheBox on Oct 14, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

You really need an editor Travis

I know you do this for fun, but given the popularity of the site, you’re now seen as representative of the Purdue fan base. Most of your posts have a fair number of typos and this one is so full of errors and excessive hyperbole that it’s a little embarrassing (and don’t get me started on your new heightened snarkiness regarding all things Danny Hope).

Some comments:
1) Harris can’t take a football scholarship from Purdue. It’s against the rules.
2) I love Jay Simpson but the comparison to JJ is very odd. They’re not even close to the same type of player.
3) Robbie Hummel is an exceptional player. Sure, Hale might become RH2.0 but it is extremely unlikely.
4) Even if Harris commits, there’s no way we’d unseat IU unless one of their kids decommitted or there are some considerable shifts in the recruiting rankings. And there’s virtually no way it would become the #1 class.

BTFU and POTFI!!

by Boilerzz94 on Oct 14, 2011 11:24 AM EDT reply actions  

I agree with everything but number 4.

Its possible considering the worth of a top-10 guy is exponentially better than say a top-40 guy. The rankings are completely opinionated and based on a bit more than just how many top-100 players. You also have to consider the types of players. If you have 4 top-100 SGs, I doubt you would be in the top-10 in terms of recruiting. I think there’s a shot with adding Harris. Just my thoughts.

by Caleb Benner on Oct 14, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

5-Star recruits seem to weigh a lot more. Pitt is ranked #5 with 1 recruit. I think with Harris we could move up to #4-ish. It would be close with IU.

by TheBox on Oct 14, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well ESPN has us already at #9 now.

So adding one of the best recruits for the 2012 class would only make it even better.

http://theboilermaker.blogspot.com/

by Bryan Steedman on Oct 15, 2011 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

IU #3 and Purdue #9

Things change, but I expect both schools to be in the Top15. So many 5 star kids are uncommitted, once they commit, we’ll see some sliding. Only way we stay in top 10 is if we get Harris. Either way, rankings are for fun and I like our class. THey will all be 4 year contributors.

by PurdueBoiler1995 on Oct 15, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the advice

1. on typos – I work on catching them but since I am doing this by myself it is hard to catch everything.

2. I didn’t know that. My fault.

3. I made the comparison based on body type and athleticism. JJ played the five, but he was more of a true 4 like Simpson is.

4. We can definitely pass IU.

5. Excessive hyperbole is all recruiting is. If you’re upset about me dreaming of national championship and the full potential of this team when it gets together then I’m sorry, it’s not going to change. The goal is the National Championship. If you set your sites lower, why play?

A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance

HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog

by BoilerTMill on Oct 14, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

offer

Liberal Arts PhD candidate here – on fellowship this year while I finish writing my dissertation. I’d be glad to give your stuff a once over before it’s posted. I’m writing all day on my computer anyways, so it wouldn’t be a burden. Just a thought…

by boilerhen on Oct 14, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you've read the Exponent anytime in the past 3-4 years,

then everything TMill writes looks worthy of Pulitzers.

for those of us at Purdue right now, it’s pure gold, even with the occasional error.

To your call once more we rally....

by BoilerPaulie on Oct 14, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure of the relevance

Other than the need for higher standards across the board.

BTFU and POTFI!!

by Boilerzz94 on Oct 14, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

just making a comparison, that's all.

if you compare anything to the Exponent, you’ll feel better about it.

To your call once more we rally....

by BoilerPaulie on Oct 14, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exponent = Excrement

Only things the Exponent is good for are cross word puzzles, Sudoku, and the police beat.

by jeckel543 on Oct 14, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

And if you have read anything I have written, it makes the Exponent look worthy of Pulitzers…

- Contributor/Editor/ All-around embarrassment at Hammer & Rails
- Follow my unintelligible musings at: @PurdueBBall

by Purdue_Pete on Oct 14, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for taking it constructively

That is how it was intended.

On #3, I just don’t know how you can make a body type comparison. JJ might never be as big as Simpson was as a 16 year old.

On #4, I’ve followed how the “experts” rank classes for some time and with the inexplicable difference between Yogi and RJ coupled with their love affair with Perea, I just don’t see packaging a Top 20 guy with 4 guys between 75-150 passing them.

On #5, I don’t think of dreaming of national titles as hyperbole. I think Coach Painter is leveraging his sweet spot (talented players who will be around at least 3 years) and is good enough to coach them up to national title contenders. Dream on!!

It was more along the line of Hale and Simpson’s comparisons to Robbie and JJ. Neither has shown enough to be mentioned as plug and play replacements for a pair of All-Americans. Can they? Sure. But I prefer to hold until they’ve done something.

As for the typos, I recommend running a spell checker before posting. It would probably eliminate 50% of the errors. And as a business executive, I always reread everything I write before publishing. It’s amazing how much I catch that I didn’t realize while typing.

BTFU and POTFI!!

by Boilerzz94 on Oct 14, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

IU's class isn't even #1 right now guys,,,

Also, I love how the guy with no blog is criticizing the guy with the blog. If you want an error free blog, start one yourself or offer to be an editor.

by bstirrat on Oct 15, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree with number 4

1 5 star and 4 100-ish guys won’t unseat IU in the standings who will have 3 top 20-50 guys and two that will likely finish around the top 130-150 when all is said and done.

No chance either school gets the top ranked class unless Harris ends up at IU.

-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.

by JustAJ on Oct 14, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lay off

This is a BLOG!!!

by boilergal on Oct 14, 2011 2:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Question

Does this mean before his site was popular he was not seen as a representative of the Purdue fan base? Obviously I am biased (and quite frankly terrified of what you think when you read my chicken scratchings) but this is a blog not a professional news paper. Typically if people don’t like what’s being written, they go somewhere else. The fact that Travis can pump out the content that he does and still manage to juggle 3 jobs amazes me.

- Contributor/Editor/ All-around embarrassment at Hammer & Rails
- Follow my unintelligible musings at: @PurdueBBall

by Purdue_Pete on Oct 14, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pay no attention to this troll.

The fact is is that Travis turns out better content then any other sportswriter I’ve ever seen. If zz94 wants to have things his way, he can go write his own stuff. Or he can offer some constructive criticism instead of arrogant diatribes.

"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"

by Boiler Bandsman on Oct 14, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, or send it in an email, that would be the polite thing to do.

Dare I say it, this strikes me as typical of the mentality of today’s student. Jealous of others success, they lash out and demand others do things for them.

by bstirrat on Oct 15, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

He wasn't trolling

He’s looking out for the good of the site. No harm in that.

Reaction images? I got 'em
Senior All-American Alto Sax

by Danulas on Oct 16, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

IU vs PU

I noticed IU had the #11 recruiting class in 2009, and they never made it out of the cellar. That shows how much of a difference the coach makes. Sad to see so many good recruits disregarding that. Our 2007 #6 ranked class kept us in the top 25 for 4 years?!

by TheBox on Oct 14, 2011 11:26 AM EDT reply actions  

Harris

With how mature Harris seems, I think he is aware of the coach factor, which is why I think it will come down to Purdue & MSU. Hopefully the combination of his parent being alumni, the close proximity to home, and our recruiting class trumps final four appearances.

by TheBox on Oct 14, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Their 2012 is around #9, their 2013 really hasn't started

They usually get all their commits late since they are usually top national recruits.

by TheBox on Oct 14, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair

Their most productive player has been injured for two years and was just injured for his third.

Reaction images? I got 'em
Senior All-American Alto Sax

by Danulas on Oct 14, 2011 11:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

people always say this

they fail to mention that the class was based on quantity more than quality. The top recruit in that class is all but dead and the other top billed recruit has been playing out of position for two years. Take away Mo Creek (as injuries have) and that class is probably barely top 20.

-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.

by JustAJ on Oct 14, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hammons

Realistically i think hammons is a project, from what i’ve seen. He needs to be in much better physical shape, develop more post moves, and a jumper to be effective in the big 10. I think he’ll redishirt his first year unless he dramatically improves his conditioning. on the plus side is when he does run the floor he runs pretty well, and he’s 7’ (can’t teach height)… remember JJ wasn’t very impactful his freshman year.

by boilerfan75 on Oct 14, 2011 11:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Can't see Painter redshirting a 7ft

I think he will improve over the year. Scout.com had an article a few months ago titled:

Hammons shows major improvements

but don’t have access to it. (anyone here with Scout membership?) Also, his current roster picture already looks different than most of his other pics, you never know how much he has improved since those videos were taken.

http://www.oakhillhoops.com/roster-player-profiles/2010-2011-oak-hill-academy-basketball-roster/

by TheBox on Oct 14, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

don't get me wrong

i love that this kid is going to be in the old gold and black, i just don’t think he’s going to contribute a whole lot his freshman year. but just wait till the training staff gets a hold of him and really gets him in shape. Look out!

by boilerfan75 on Oct 14, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it's way too early to tell...

The last two years have been night and day for AJ. He’s lost a ton of weight and has really improved his mobility. Considering that he hasn’t even started his senior season, there is no telling how developed he is from day one.

But I am in the camp that thinks Painter will find a place for a 7 footer as a freshman.

- Contributor/Editor/ All-around embarrassment at Hammer & Rails
- Follow my unintelligible musings at: @PurdueBBall

by Purdue_Pete on Oct 14, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scary thought

Most people continue to grow for at least a couple of years out of high school – any chance Hammons will continue to get bigger?? After watching some highlights, it seems unfair that someone his size is playing h.s. ball!

by jffiv on Oct 14, 2011 11:41 AM EDT reply actions  

I think that's part of why his highlight video looks fairly uneventful.

It looks almost as if he doesn’t even have to try against the kids he was up against. He’s a giant.

To your call once more we rally....

by BoilerPaulie on Oct 14, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree for the most part

Only part I really disagree with is that the impact of IU’s 2012 recruiting class will be affected by what has come before. I know they are different situations, but when Hummel, Martin, JJ and Etwaun came onto the team their freshman year they made a drastic difference. Yes we had players like Kramer and Grant and were in the midst of turning the program around, but IU is not going to be completely devoid of talent either going into that year. Zeller will have a year under their belt and I expect them to be better this year than they have the past 3 years.

by Boylemaker88 on Oct 14, 2011 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Hummel 2.0 ?

Please don’t make Donnie Hale out to be Robbie Hummel – different players. Donnie can play and do some nice things, but I don’t think anyone’s going to make that comparison. Give these kids a chance to establish their own identity.

P.S. If Hammonds improves like JJ, then we’ll be okay.

by buddha58 on Oct 14, 2011 1:08 PM EDT reply actions  

IF

IF AJ improves as much as JJ did then he will be NPoY and first overall in the draft. And that is not hyperbole. When JJ arrived he was very raw. Painter molded him into a first team All American and a first round pick. The only thing Painter couldn’t do was change his genetics and fatten him up. If Hammons buys into the program, sheds weight, puts on muscle, and commits to getting better he will be the anchor of some excellent teams. That’s a big IF though.

by Billy Shears on Oct 14, 2011 1:23 PM EDT reply actions  

It works both ways

As much as Painter helps turn JJ into an AA and 1st-rd pick, I think JJ also deserves a ton of credit for working his butt off and improving year after year. You can teach a guy, but he has to work hard and keep practicing it over the off season when no one is watching.

by charlespig on Oct 14, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty good pick-up here

Currently I would compare Hammons to IU’s Peter Jurkin. They’ll both be coming in as defensive specialists mostly but have the potential to become pretty good offensive threats. That being said Jurkin is at best a top 100 player and Hammons is a top 50.

If Painter can keep him in line and get some effort out of him he’ll be damn good. Hammons has the body type to be super successful at the B1G level. The motor is what has him rated so lowly. It will be interesting to watch him over the next few years and see what he becomes. I’ll venture to say if he does pan out it won’t likely be until his late sophomore or junior year that he’s a major threat. It will be a slow process and if you use Jurkin and Hammons as the standard we might be able to settle an argument or two on who can and can’t develop players better between Crean and Painter. They both are getting similar players at near the same point in their development (though drastically different body types).

-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.

by JustAJ on Oct 14, 2011 1:46 PM EDT reply actions  

AJ, why can't all IU fans be like you?

Having you come over here and give us your input is always a pleasure.

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Senior All-American Alto Sax

by Danulas on Oct 14, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I appreciate the compliment

I just try to inject logic into everything, which sometimes is hard to d… PURDUE IS TEH SUCK!

-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.

by JustAJ on Oct 14, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, no, no AJ!

as an IU fan aren’t you required to throw five banners in our face and remind us (as if we forgot) we have none?

A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance

HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog

by BoilerTMill on Oct 15, 2011 6:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

+1

even if I ever disagree with AJ, I don’t ever feel the need to abandon civility.

To your call once more we rally....

by BoilerPaulie on Oct 14, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Peter Jurkin

The 12 year old boy in me always giggles a bit when I see that name.

"To HELL with the cup - give those Boilers KNEE braces!!"
- Dennis Miller (I know he's thinkin' it!)

by boilerslim on Oct 14, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't realize this was in question....

“It will be a slow process and if you use Jurkin and Hammons as the standard we might be able to settle an argument or two on who can and can’t develop players better between Crean and Painter.”

Perhaps amongst IU fans, i can see that :)

by bstirrat on Oct 15, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can already give you a big difference between the two.

80 pounds.

Jurkin better develop some fancy post moves if he wants to get around Hammons.

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Senior All-American Alto Sax

by Danulas on Oct 16, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jurkin will be more of a JJ style post player

Hammons a Sullinger. Either way the goals will be identical if not the methods.

-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.

by JustAJ on Oct 16, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am so excited to have a true center

The past several years we’ve had to play so many 3 guard lineups and undersized players in the post (Byrd comes to mind).

by MPBoiler on Oct 14, 2011 1:51 PM EDT reply actions  

*drool*

To your call once more we rally....

by BoilerPaulie on Oct 14, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

And...

Hummel at 3, Moore at 2 and LewJack at 1. That team would have been ok.

I do wonder what this will do for our team now though. It’d be hard to sit a 7-footer if he’s handling things in the middle, but now you have simpson/hale/lawson fighting for time at the 4 right? That said, I’m pretty sure we can count Willis out of the picture now.

by jffiv on Oct 14, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

If our greatest worry is that we have too many good players...

We’re doing pretty well. I have no doubt Painter will set up the rotations to get the most out of all these guys.

"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"

by Boiler Bandsman on Oct 14, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

It also helps that

None of these guys seem to have big egos. Not that they arent confident or dont want minutes in games but none of them seem to be the type that would sulk and half ass it if they dont get 25-30 min a game.

by jack'sIUdisdain on Oct 15, 2011 5:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

On paper this class, with Harris, is virtually perfect and could unseat IU as the #1 class in the nation.

Not really.

Ever Grateful. Ever True.

by PurdueMatt on Oct 14, 2011 3:15 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

IU’s class would still be better IMO.

by xBoiler on Oct 14, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

On pure talent in HS alone, maybe

But the upside with Painter is much, much higher than with Crean. I think even IU fans would agree with that. If IU got to choose between Crean and Painter, I would venture to say 85% would choose Painter with the other 15% being in the PURDUE IS TEH SUCK or the WE HAVE 6 BANNERS!!1 crowd

by Caleb Benner on Oct 14, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I need one more year to make that decision

the recruiting class everyone cites as being the class that never developed are just now juniors. 80% of guys that step into the Big Ten as freshman aren’t expected to be major contributors until their junior or senior years. Those six were asked to come in and essentially be the team from day one. Creek was as good as advertised before injuries. Watford made a huge leap as a sophomore and Hulls did as well. Muniru was gone after his freshman year. Capo never showed much promise. Elston has something to prove this year.

So from that “Crean can’t develop players” meme, the class that catches that criticism aren’t about to start their third year in college bball. 2 of the guys of the remaining 4 were supposed to be immediate head turners and they were. The other 2 were supposed to be the supporting cast, the majority of college supporting cast guys don’t really step into their own until year 3 or 4 (see: Jordan Taylor, Ryne Smith, etc.) Thus, I need this year to make a more informed decision on Tom Crean and the validity of “can’t develop players” meme.

-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.

by JustAJ on Oct 14, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree with AJ on this

Crean has built IU’s program from the ground up, assembling a lot of spare parts (ie. those not named Watford or Creek) in his first two years (his last class was more thematically consistent). Which forced him to try to mold those spare parts into his Dribble-Drive system, which requires a certain type of player to be the most effective. As he starts to get more players built in that Dribble-Drive mold we’ll be able to tell if he’s as good at developing players for his system as Painter is for his. In my opinion, guys like Jurkin, Oladipo and Perea will be the bellwether for that kind of determination.

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by therailroadtie on Oct 14, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

You sound just like TMill

…in the perpetual optimism (bias). Maybe that’s what made you guys true fans, always see it rosy.

I don’t care much about the argument whether Painter develops better players than Crean. My opinion doesn’t matter; what matters is what the recruits (and to an extent, their parents, if they have strong influence) think.

I’d love to see us getting Harris, and then we can both use the Class of 2012 as a comparison. That will be the most similar and fairest comparison, agree?

As for your argument that “80% of guys aren’t expected to be major contributors until their junior or senior years”, that only applies to a “standard” program. When the cupboard is as bare as IU was in 2009, the players were expected to contribute right away, just like the 2007 Boilers.

Although, I’d say, the success of the 2007 Boilers is a very high standard and few coaches can be expected to match, so I am not judging Crean based on Painter’s 2007, but I think 2012 (if we get Harris) will be a much fairer comparison once and for all.

And at the end of the day, as much said about Painter “developing” players, I think the players themselves deserve a ton of credit. You have to WANT TO be developed. You have to work hard when no one is watching. You have to be self-disciplined enough to go to the weight room on days even though you don’t feel like it. JJ’s improvement every year (from non-contributor to 1st rd pick) has a lot to do with himself too, adding all kinds of scoring moves in his senior year, and I don’t think Painter should get all the credit. It also helps to have some guys like Kramer to lead the team. I have no doubt that guys like Kramer would rough the youngsters and unless you bring your A game and work your butt off, he is gonna abuse you in practice everyday. That’s a luxury Crean didn’t have back then. (But now there’s no excuse. If CZ turns out to be a bust then it’s on Crean)

by charlespig on Oct 15, 2011 6:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

JJ set goals for himself

Between his junior and senior year, he set a goal to be able to bench 300lb by the end of the summer.

It’s those types of individual goals (lift so much, run so fast, make so many consecutive shots) that make the difference. Not only is it beneficial to the player’s performance, but it says a lot about the character of the player.

And while we’re on the subject, even the players we consider to have the worst attitude (GDB) clearly put in the effort to make themselves better. There’s no denying that GDB worked hard to improve his free throw shooting.

Maybe it’s the idea of personal goals and self-improvement that CMP instils in his players on a regular basis.

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by Danulas on Oct 15, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

This year will be a good measure to see if that attitude is officially part of the team’s culture.

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by Purdue_Pete on Oct 15, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

CMP probably creates an environment that is conducive to players setting and meeting their personal goals. It helps when the player too is self-disciplined. It also helps that the prevailing culture (e.g. Kramer) encourages hard work. Plus, you are doing it with your best friends. All of these factors together and you get someone who is not much a contributor (as a frosh) ends up POY and dPOY for the conference and a 1st rd pick.

by charlespig on Oct 15, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes they were asked to contribute in a major way immediately

but that shouldn’t be asked of a freshman unless they’re a top 30 type recruit. Just because they were expected to contribute right away (there wasn’t anyone else to do so) doesn’t mean it is fair to then adjust your 4 year expectations to match the unreasonable things you ask of them to start their career.

Unless there is a recruit in the top 30, I don’t expect major stuff out of him as a freshman. If he’s in the top 60-70 he should be contributing by year 2. If they’re in the top 150, by year 3. If they’re outside of that they should be good role/bench players by year 3.

-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.

by JustAJ on Oct 15, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

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