Recruiting "Issues"
by The Original Dude on Jan 10, 2011 12:09 PM EST
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PrintGuys- I have some concerns about Matty's 2012 and subsequent 2013 recruiting strategies.
First off I kind of feel he missed the boat on Gary Harris and DSR. I guess he's still in the running for DSR, but Harris is a long shot and now #1 priority. Shouldn't he have offered them before he offered Davis and Mollock? As I said I hear Harris is now #1 priortity and we're flirting heavily with Hollowell. We're full for 2012, where is the extra scholly coming from? Is there an assumption Mollock won't be here, with the ACL and all. Is Bade's move to the dog house a messagee to the kid, especially with another big white dude coming in next year and Carroll looking like a a legit B10 player. Also if we're a long shot on Harris and we're insisting 2012 is done yet, shouldn't we just take the bird in the hand that is Hollowell?
Next question: With Bryson on board, and probably Beachem soon, looking at the roster don't we need a 5 down the road? If you assume we find one in 2013 (only place we have room), any ideas who? I don't see us being ok with Lawson and Hale being the only 2 "Big" men on the team. Along with that, assuming no one leaves, it leaves 1 spot for either Smotherman, Irvin, Foster, and Stephens. Who's the best and who's the most likely get. Toss in Hollowell if Mollock does sign.
Matty's strategy is very confusing... Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated....
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Davis / Mollock
As much as I’d love to get Gary Harris, I don’t think it will hurt that badly if he doesn’t commit (unless he goes to IU). Raphael Davis doesn’t get a lot of publicity (at least in the Indy area) but I personally feel like he will be a stud. He’s got good size for a guard at 6’5" / 200lbs and seems to be able to score at will. Mollock is a wild card given the injury but he seemed like a good prospect. I agree that we need to add a center to go along with the bevy of 6’8" guys on the roster. It seems to me that we have a ton of athletic guards on the roster so I would say we need to concentrate on adding size. I think there is some big kid from Chesterton who Purdue is looking at. I can’t remember what class he is in but I think he is 6’10" and has a decent game. Should be interesting to see what Painter does. I trust he will find the right mix of talent.
Davis/Scott
I saw Rapheal Davis’ South Side team play against Bryson Scott’s Northrop team over the holidays. Davis is tall, athletic, can shoot, but played a little lazy. It must be noted that his team is not very good, and this might of contributed his “laziness.” Overall, he has a ton of potential to be a really good B10 player. Bryson Scott was in foul trouble most of the game, but showed Demetri McCamey-esque flashes when he was in. He has a very quick first step and a nice looking shot. The guy I was most impressed with was Bryson’s twin brother Brenton. He doesn’t have as much natural skill as Bryson (although it’s close), but showed great leadership willing his team to victory (playing PG the entire game even when Bryson was in). Those intangibles don’t show up in the box score. Maybe MP should give him another look.
You can feel good, good about Hood
Harris / Hollowell
I don’t get it either. An IU fan posted a comment on ESPN that Yogi F leaked that Harris decided over the break to committ to IU (I am hopefull that this is just B.S.). But the question is what is Painter doing? We do not have a scholarship to offer, Harris is most likely going to IU, MISU, or Louisville, and Hollowell does appear to be primed to head to Purdue if we go after him hard. I question why Painter locked up 2012 so early without first going hard after Indiana kids.
He went after guys early that he thought would be good later on, I think he will go after Hollowell hard, b/c he will not go to IU if Harris does (too many shooters, also completely my opinion).
We still have a good class for ’12. Molock is the only real question mark, but he should start playing again soon.
Agree...from what
it looks like, IU fans feel as though they are in pretty good with Harris, and at the same time are cooling on Hollowell. There is no expectation that they will go for both. Purdue might actually be better off if Harris chooses IU, as that would allow Hollowell to go to Purdue. If Harris goes to say MSU, that would allow IU to go full court for Hollowell.
Its tougher to recruit a high level
when teams like Duke, UNC, Kansas etc can come in at the last moment and get a player. We have to gauge talent early and make decisions.
Harris blew up after we had “filled” or 2012 class
by Delaware Boiler on Jan 10, 2011 3:25 PM EST reply actions
Thanks!
Guys, I love the discussion, but I want to refocus people. There’s a lot of obvious points, Harris came on late, top tier programs can swoop, etc. The point is why did Mollock recieve a scholly before the in state guys (DSR, Harris, Hollowell)? Then beyond that how do we intend to take the +1? I have a good feeling about Davis as well, but we’re kind of backed into a corner. I’m pretty sure that Mitch McGary would’ve committed if he had an offer over the summer. He still could if we offered, but by all accounts we’re all in on Harris, which I doubt will payoff.
And does anyone have thoughts about the ‘13 class? What does Matty do for a big? He hasn’t recruited any big (this side of Jabari Parker) yet.
Another wrinkle: How much has the loss of Cuonzo affected the recruitment effort? Also would we even be having this conversation if Dawson came through and if IU wasn’t on its current roll?
by The Original Dude on Jan 10, 2011 5:09 PM EST reply actions
My thoughts...
1.) Painter handed out scholarships to the players he felt the best about. He saw Yogi and Molock play, and offered both and let the first one to commit take that spot. DSR is talented, but Painter can’t put his priorities in every player. (And I am not going to even get into the added baggage that DSR would carry.) Molock was (and still could be if he recovers quickly) the #1 PG in Ohio. Just because you don’t hear about him doesn’t make him any less of a viable commitment.
2.) Painter doesn’t need to explain himself. He has stated that he is going to continue to recruit the class of 2012 and anything you hear otherwise is pure speculation. I agree that the current roster and rotation could be a very telling into what is going to happen, but it doesn’t matter. Painter is still recruiting and he knows what he’s doing.
3.) When we offered McGary he was a academic liability – so we cooled off on him. Based on some comments I have heard (on multiple occassions) coming from his mouth, I think he’s still upset about Purdue backing off. Regardless, he wants to be a shooting PF and that’s not what we need.
4.) Jay Simpson is a big in the class of 2012.
5.) Jeremy Hollowell might be ranked high, but just because he has the stars next to his name doesn’t mean he is a great fit for the program. I am going to trust painter on this one because he has seen him play a lot over the past month. But JH has great talent with a questionable motor. Seeing that Jay Simpson, Lawson, and Barlow also get that label, I am sure Painter is really evaluating if he’s a good fit.
6.) Harris and Hollowell are both in no hurry to commit. Purdue is also in no rush in adding another 2012 recruit, so time is Purdue’s side.
7.) Painter is not going to waste a scholarship just to add another for the class of 2012.
8.) 2013 PF/C Alex Foster is very high on Purdue. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was the next commitment.
9.) In retrospect, I think Cuonzo’s loss did make a minor impact, but it’s water under the bridge at this point.
Did I miss anything?
Foster is what I was looking for, he is a good Chicago prospect. I would love if we could get some in roads to getting more out of the Windy City, there is always top talent.
I would not be surprised if we do not have anymore 2012 commits (they seem like long shots anyway, especially with the lack of scholarships).
2013 is what we should focus on, come on Beachem!
as and IU fan I hope we pass on Hollowell
his play is slow and lazy. I have yet to see a highlight reel where he makes quick cuts or hard drives. He just seems to be skating by on talent. I don’t know much about him and his work ethic but from looking at him on the court I would range a guess saying his work ethic isn’t high.
"Power does not corrupt men; fools, however, if they get into a position of power, corrupt power."
- George Bernard Shaw
I can tell you that I have seen Molock play and he does look like a good fit for Purdue’s system. The #1 ranking for point guard in Ohio is legit.
Cuonzo’s loss was tuff, but somewhat expected, right?
If someone out there knows, wasn’t Rick Ray leaving more of a surprise and didn’t that really hurt us with Dawson and recruiting more than Cuonzo leaving?
2013 is the key
I believe Painter is still recruiting 2012 hard because he knows there will be a slot come spring/summer. I also think that a lot of the names mentioned in this thread will still be around. The key class to me is 2013. Matty is already off to a great start with B. Scott and if the rumors come true about Beachem and Foster, we’re looking at 2007 all over again. I personally would like to see K. Stephens added to the mix. I had a chance to see him play, and he has one of the purest strokes I’ve seen at that level.
by Hummel's figurines on Jan 11, 2011 10:13 AM EST reply actions
Kendall Stephens
Sounds like Kendall Stephens is starting to get more and more interest from a lot of teams. I don’t know much about him but apparently he is the son of former Purdue player Everett Stephens. So I’d say we have a pretty good shot of getting him given the family connection. Overall I’m not overly concerned about the state of our recruiting efforts. I think we’ve got some nice players coming in who hopefully will mess well with the guys that we’ve got. Indiana has a ton of talent in the next couple of recruiting classes and I have every reason to believe we will get some of those kids to West Lafayette.
Beachem
Word is that he took an unofficial trip to the game Sunday. Ft Wayne paper quoted him as saying he is too young to committ yet. Sounds like we have a good lean, but remember these are teenagers! And I agree with what Purdue Pete had to say, let’s trust Matty that’s why they pay him the big bucks!
by boilercattleman on Jan 11, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
I haven't seen Stephens play yet
But from what I hear, he really is blowing up. I know Duke has started contacting him. (F!). I try not to hold too much stock in the power of a legacy because sometimes that can work against Purdue as much as it works in it’s favor.
Regardless, the kid would be a huge grab (especially if he gains some weight). His arms seem to be as long as his entire body.
by Purdue_Pete on Jan 12, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
It's funny to hear...
…the lack of excitement for Molock. Based simply on film he’s the one I’m most excited about in the upcoming few classes. What a natural (read:teachable) talent!
Selfishly, I’m okay with him missing this season bc I think he may have garnered some late interest from those “swoop in” programs.
Recruiting is not an issue...
2011 – Lawson and Hale will be excellent additions to Purdue. Both are high flyers that can poke on just about anyone and swat shots. Maybe Bade will transfer since there will be no room for him in the rotation, especially with Hummel back.
2012 – In regards to Simpson…he’s solid and can shoot. Davis a scorer that has flown under the radar for the most part and he was an early commit to Purdue (I think after his Soph year). Since Molock is hurt, I wonder if there is some concern about keeping him…maybe that’s why Painter is still keeping in touch with Harris and Hollowell. Plus the following year Scott will be there. I would love Harris at Purdue. He’s a freakin stud, kind of reminds me of Eric Gordon.
2013 – Beachem was extended an offer…Let’s see if Scott helps recruit him. Irvin and Smotherman are studs too…if we can get 3-4 in state guys for 2013…it could look a lot like 2007. If Parker somehow is taken by Purdue, this class could be sick.
IU sucks balls. Coaching is the problem, not the talent.
by boilerbacker31 on Jan 11, 2011 9:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'm trying to be negative...
2011: The fact is Lawson is a raw athlete, not a basketball player yet. He has a high ceiling but also a low floor. Hale is what he is, probably a lesser version of Robbie, certainly less shot. Nothing against them, but they are better as compliments rather than centerpieces.
2012: if Matty offered Mollock and Yogi the same time and took the firs; that is a HUGE mistake. Mollock might be #1 PG in Ohio but Ohio is not good in ‘12. And even if Matty had both rated the same, wouldn’t you focus on the in-state guy, knowing how it can affect future kids? Same for Simpson, Illinois’ class is terrible for its standards. I mean isn’t that the reason IU hit the jackpot? We filled up with slightly above average out of state kids, didn’t take much for Crean to clean house after that.
2013: Foster is a WF. But true Simpson is a PF, so the 4/5 problem isn’t as big as I thought.
I don’t want people to think the wrong thing about me I’m not trying to be negative or suggest Matt doesn’t know what he’s doing. I am saying I think he’s made some strategic mistakes that Crean has capitalized on. Nothing we can do about the past. Anyone who knows Bball knows Crean won ’11 and will win ’12 (save a huge Harris upset). If you can hold serve on the top 20-80 in state guys, you can win the state, the Teagues and such will go to the highest bidders.
One last thing: I want to address this “system” business: I get that we do things a little different. Guys need to buy into the defensive play hard mentality. I get it. I think some people underestimate the average kid’s willingness to buy in to Matty’s system. I think guys like Lew and Barlow are perfect examples of kids you might not think would care about defense, they saw guys like Keaton and Kramer do it and now they do it, and are two of the best in the conference. I’m not saying all kids will but a good portion. I say give Matt the talent and he can teach the system.
Last thing: IU does suck, but I think it’s both talent and coaching. IU fans even see it. Problem is he’ll likely be able to stick it out until the talent comes. Then he might become another Thad Matta, terrible coach, excellent talent.
by The Original Dude on Jan 12, 2011 5:01 PM EST reply actions
“I don’t want people to think the wrong thing about me I’m not trying to be negative or suggest Matt doesn’t know what he’s doing. I am saying I think he’s made some strategic mistakes that Crean has capitalized on.”
Uh, so in other words, you’re saying Painter doesn’t know what he’s doing haha.
by Boylemaker88 on Jan 12, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
2012 is a good class for us
Just because IU got more out of their ‘12 class doesn’t mean ours is invalidated. Not much can be done at this point anyway, so we should focus on ’13 and see what happens. If we somehow land another ’12 kid great, if not it is still a great class.
Couple things...
- Recruiting is a tough business. It’s imperative that coaches make offer decisions earlier and earlier to stay ahead of the curve. My guess is this strategy is going to cool off as players are difficult to evaluate at that age. I wouldn’t call it a mistake my any means. There is a lot of criteria that Painter evaluates kids on that go beyond rankings and point averages. And in this situation, Molock might be an ideal role player. He rebounds, passes, and creates his shot, and with Bryson Scott coming in the following year, he might be a great player to come off the bench.
- I agree with your assessment of Lawson. Sure the kid can jump, but without a high motor or an outside shot he’s very limited. I don’t think we’ll see much “wow” out of him until his junior year.
- There is a TON of character evaluation that goes into Painter’s recruiting. You see him “miss out” on people, but in many instances, he realizes the red flags the kid has all over him. Many of the targets people have been upset about Painter passing up ended up being the same kids who fail to qualify, decommit, or have been proven to be very me-oriented. He can only stretch himself out so thin and I think he does a good job of eliminating folks who the battle will not be worth it.
- I agree that the incoming team as it stands (and not potential recruits) can look very underwhelming in certain light. Much of the future success relies on Painter to develop the talent he has and continue playing the same style we have been accustomed to. I have very high hopes for the future (less next season) if all the players that are currently committed are completely committed to Matt Painter’s philosophy. As long as they are busting their asses each day in practice, I am confident he’ll tap in to their potential.
Last Thing: I look forward to see how Crean handles the talent he has. With most of his committed players not signed, next season will be a very high pressure situation for him.
(comment not proof read)
by Purdue_Pete on Jan 13, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Red Shirts.
With 2 players leaving through graduation, I wonder if the best thing to do would be to red shirt Lawson. Let that athleticism turn into basketball talent in practice. I think a good way for us to remain at the top of the B10 is to start picking one guy a year to red shirt so that way we will never lack in leadership or maturity.
Good Idea...
but I don’t see it happening on a consistent basis. I think it makes sense in a case like Anthony Johnson, who wouldn’t have seen much, if any, playing time do to a slew of guards in front of him. In Lawson’s case, who else is going to keep him from seeing the floor? Hummel will obviosuly see the bulk of the minutes but I can see Lawson and Hale both getting a lot of minutes. We will need the size, rebounding, and blocked shots. I think Carroll is improving and will probably start at center but I think there will be plenty of times when you will see a line up with Hummel and Lawson/Hale in it. If he truly is as athletic as they say than why not let him get some minutes and see what he can do. A couple big time dunks in timely situations could do a lot for a team. Perhaps he could provide some of the defense in the interior we are losing when JJ is gone.
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