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A public apology to Syracuse fans

Before getting into the Michigan State preview later today, I feel like there needs to be a final word on yesterday's overrated/underrated debate. First off, I owe Big East fans in general and Syracuse fans specifically an apology. I based my opinion of Syracuse too much on the one LeMoyne game and on teams like North Carolina, Florida, and Cal faltering. The LeMoyne loss still bothers me some because no major conference team should ever lose to a Division II team. To me, a major conference basketball team has so many advantages in talent, film study, coaching, training, facilities, etc that it should never, under any circumstances, lose to a division II team. To be fair, I feel the same way about a BCS conference football team losing to a 1-AA team, something that has happened all too often to the Big Ten since 2006.

That said, the Syracuse fans that came over here and coherently argued the case for the Orange impressed me. The Orange is clearly a team that took that loss and learned from it. Thanks to Syracuse fans, I got a better idea of their entire body of work. I originally said they were still a very, very good team, but not worthy of their ranking. In that, I was wrong. If I am going to argue earlier in the season that Purdue should be higher because they have beaten everyone they have played and cannot control what others on their schedule do, then I must logically carry that argument over to teams like Syracuse who have only one loss. Yes, it was a loss at home, but we have no room to talk after losing to a similar team at home in Ohio State.

Part of what makes me stand out (at least I hope) as a blogger is that I am willing to admit when I am wrong. I respect solid arguments backed up by stats more than raw, attacking opinion (i.e. Purdon't couldn't even compete with the last place Big East teams because the Big Ten is worse than the WAC and you are an idiot who writes at a fifth grade level). I will admit in this case I was wrong about Syracuse. I respect and thank the Orange fans that came over here to politely express their opinion and sway me to your cause. It is my hope that you will take a look at Purdue tonight, in what will be a very tough road game, and respect us as well. I think we have earned some respect to this point despite our stumbles. Of course, with my cockiness I am sure I have doomed the guys to a bad loss tonight.

Star-divide

(Sidebar: Even mentioning Purdon't is a good way to get you totally ignored by this community. It is not original and we have heard it thousands of times. Come up with something new, please!)

I feel the same about Villanova, in terms of no longer being overrated, after the Wildcats earned an impressive win last night. It is a win that both helps and hurts Purdue. It helps because it should move West Virginia behind the Boilers where they should belong based on the January 1 result, but it hurts because it does not raise the overall profile of West Virginia, our best win.

As far as my view of Purdue (which I never did mention last night) I think we are somewhat overrated, honestly. There is little question we're a good team that can compete (I said compete, not beat) with anyone. We're also more than capable of having a crap-the-bed loss. Wisconsin is not a bad loss, and if we hit free throws at our normal clip the endgame there is different. We choked against Ohio State and at Northwestern we lost because we made the conscious decision to not rebound. #6 teams in the country do not do this, so we do not deserve this ranking.

Once again, I apologize to the Syracuse fans out there. You guys have been great (except those that chose to personally insult me and those that e-mailed me telling me to "take down your "Big Dog" poster from your parents (I mean your) basement and look at reality." In terms of number of teams, The Big East will always be a better conference (interms of number of good teams) because of sheer volume. 16 is a bigger number than 11. When you factor in a "bottom 4" of teams that are not that good, that still makes it 12 to 7 in favor of the Big East. In can be harder to judge the Big East because there are not as many head-to-head matchups as there are in the Big Ten, but there is also the different style of basketball that is played. What makes March so fun is seeing those styles against each other one-on-one. The team that adapts first is the one that will win, so it pays to be versatile.

To wrap this up, let's just be civil to each other. I made a mistake, as I should know that a 2-3 zone is deadly when properly executed. Basil Mawbey is to Indiana High school basketball what Jim Boeheim is to major college basketball because of their 2-3 zone. Coach Mawbey was my high school coach and he has nearly 700 career wins and two state titles, so that is high of a praise I can manage.

Of course, there is only one way to settle this: Next weekend Big Ten/Big East baseball challenge in the Tampa Bay area. Which conference will be more than a mid-major?

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Thanks BoilerT.

I like Purdue. They are gritty and I think they have a coach who they like playing for it seems. If I had a bracket in front of me right now I can’t imagine not having Purdue to the Elite 8, at least. I am wondering how good this WVU team that both Syracuse and Purdue beat. I know Purdue smacked them at Mackey while Syracuse beat them by 1 in Morgantown, (however WVU made a late run with a bunch of 3s in the last 2 minutes to make it that close).

WVU’s 3 best wins are Pitt, Ohio State (ironic they have beaten 2 of the teams to have beaten Purdue and Syracuse) and Mississippi. They have not played well in 3 games against top 5 caliber teams.

WVU could be in a for a spiral down the rankings. They have road games left with UConn, Providence, Nova and Pitt (easily could lose all 4) and they still have Georgetown and two desperate teams in Seton Hall and Cincy at home. WVU needs to pick it up or they literally could go from 4th this week to a 5-6 seed come Selection Sunday. This teams resume at this point is not worthy of even a 2 seed IMO, despite their ranking heading into last night.

by Syracuse Ben on Feb 9, 2010 10:25 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks

Thanks Boiler TMill for this post. yesterday was an awesome debate man!!! Glad to be a part of it. I can’t wait for the Purdue / Mich St game. And I will be routing for Purdue! I wouldn’t say that the Big East is always a better conference than the Big Ten. Your conference has produced many superstars like Magic Johnson, who had longevity in the NBA. The Big East wasn’t always good! The Big Ten is a very good conference. This site is awesome and if you don’t mind, even know my team is Syracuse, I would like to contribute to the talk as I follow all of college basketball and was so intrigued by yesterdays debate that I would love to debate other topics. Thanks again for your site man! Go Bolier’s & Cuse!!!!!

Matt

by Phoenixcusefan on Feb 9, 2010 10:55 AM EST reply actions  

thank you very much

I am glad I could impress you with my ability to change. I will always those that respectfully disagree over those that attack first. I saw some of the comments left at Syracuse.com. just brutal, even after the change of heart.

A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance

HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog

by BoilerTMill on Feb 9, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Some of our fans can be cruel! Most of the true fans respect other fans of other teams. just ignore them.

Matt

by Phoenixcusefan on Feb 9, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Glad you made the trip over

I certainly welcome an outside opinion (that’s well thought out) and look forward to future debates.

Lord, beer me strength.

by doublegoldandblack on Feb 9, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

So about that game tonight.

by rcpratt on Feb 9, 2010 11:09 AM EST reply actions  

Why?

T, why are you caving to these fools? You’re entitled to your opinion. I agree ‘cuse is scary good and I wouldn’t have quite said what you wrote BUT you did acknowledge how good they were — you never said they were terrible and Purdue would rock their world or anything like that.

If mouth-breathers choose to come here and bash you for having the temerity to suggest their team might be a tad overrated without reading the entirety of what you wrote (which is EXACTLY what happened), you do NOT owe them an “apology.”

[insert prophetic yet obnoxiously haughty and annoying quote here]

by J Money BS on Feb 9, 2010 11:22 AM EST reply actions  

thank god

this wasnt posted on Boiled Sports the debate would have been horrible. especially with the humor on that site

by Delaware Boiler on Feb 9, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Huh?

Delaware Boiler, I don’t get your BS comment…

[insert prophetic yet obnoxiously haughty and annoying quote here]

by J Money BS on Feb 9, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I would have preferred that to laying down and taking it in the bum, personally.

by rcpratt on Feb 9, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

There was an explanation do considering T didn’t have all the facts! We didn’t have to have an apology! But when a post is made when all the facts have not been weighed then there needs to be a debate and an explanation. Hey, you are way late on responding to any of this anyway!

Matt

by Phoenixcusefan on Feb 9, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Way late?

Ah, no, I’m not. I’m commenting on this unnecessary “apology.”

And the fact that this is the kind of Purdue Fan story getting linked on ESPN.com is not a good thing for us.

[insert prophetic yet obnoxiously haughty and annoying quote here]

by J Money BS on Feb 9, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think he caved. He just took some debate and recognized the points we were making. Thats all.

Those of that are still here didn’t come here to get everyone to recognize they are the best team or that they would kill Purdue. We just took umbrage with those saying Syracuse was overrated. The arguments for that point just didn’t add up and BoilerT recognized it.

I fully understand if he can’t get the LeMoyne loss out of his head. I might be thinknig the same thing if something similar had happened to one of the teams ranked ahead of my team. But the overrated label is not fair. To be overrated that means there are teams behind you that are more deserving. There isn’t anyone behind Syracuse more deserving at this moment.

This is a Purdue blog and I think T had the right idea. He wanted to show that any of these teams at the top of the rankings could be beat and it wasn’t neccessarily going to take a herculian effort from a powerhouse to do it. He just shouldn’t have called SU overrated which is mainly what I think upset the SU fans. You can add itup any way you like, to this point, nobody had had a better season than Syracuse, outside of maybe Kansas. The Jayhawks validated that #1 ranking last night and I think that win might give them a slight edge over SU to this point. That is all irrelevant though. Other than the pride factor I could care less about the 1 ranking. All I want is a solid chance to win in March and I think Syracuse and Purdue have that this season.

Good luck boys.

by Syracuse Ben on Feb 9, 2010 12:03 PM EST reply actions  

Purdue has our Respect

I will be cheering for Purdue tonight vs Michigan State. Despite the fact that Purdue is in 5th place in the Big Ten and #6 overall, they still have our respect.

Syracuse and Purdue both have fans that are knowledgeable, well informed and make valid arguments using facts. We both also have less-informed fans that choose to utilize “selective reading” and make silly statements (J Money BS). Regardless, good luck Boilers.

by exCUSE Me on Feb 9, 2010 12:21 PM EST reply actions  

fifth place, or one game out of first in the loss column

Despite the fact that Purdue is in 5th place in the Big Ten and #6 overall, they still have our respect.

Nice backhanded remark. You clowns were behind Purdue in the rankings all year and now you’re slightly ahead and you act like that. Classy. To be expected, I guess.

[insert prophetic yet obnoxiously haughty and annoying quote here]

by J Money BS on Feb 9, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Backhanded apology?

I’ve never seen an apology get QUANTIFIED:

“The LeMoyne loss still bothers me some because no major conference team should ever lose to a Division II team. To me, a major conference basketball team has so many advantages…”

For the love of God. IT. WAS. AN. EXHIBITION.

If it was during the regular season (see: Michigan loss to Appalachian State), you would have a valid comment.

If these are your apologies, keep them to yourself.

by BOF DEM on Feb 9, 2010 12:45 PM EST reply actions  

So you're saying...

If Purdue had lost its exhibition to Kentucky Wesleyan or California of Pennsylvania it would have never once been mentioned.

A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance

HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog

by BoilerTMill on Feb 9, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It's your opinion but

I think it demonstrates that TMill is a classy blogger and was giving an honest heartfelt apology. Would you rather he had lied and given a contrived apology written by P.R. people? I understand that Syracuse is 23-1 and deserves their ranking. I also understand that Syracuse fans were offended at being called overrated when their whole body of work is outstanding. I admire the classy Syracuse fans on here that are passionate about their team and give reasonable and basketball based arguments. I give TMill props for listening to them, admitting he undestimated the Orange and placed too much importance on the game. I also think the LeMoyne loss would bother any passionate Syracuse fan. If Purdue had lost to a division 2 team, it would bother me no matter what they did the rest of the season. Based on their whole body of work Syracuse is an excellent team and I have nothing but respect for their program, their team and their classy fans.

by boilerg on Feb 9, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, this...situation...made it on the ESPN College Basketball Nation Blog

Written by Eamonn Brennan. So that’s interesting. Link.

Here’s the story: Purdue blog Hammer And Rails runs a semi-joking post saying Syracuse is overrated because of the Orange’s exhibition loss to LeMoyne. After Syracuse fans raid his house and threaten his family – just kidding; they actually wrote very reasonable, well-received responses in defense of their club – BoilerT does something people who spend their time arguing on the Internet never do: apologizes. It’s a small victory, but this is what John Lennon was talking about, guys.

by rcpratt on Feb 9, 2010 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

BoilerTMill: building bridges

I think you handled the onslaught well. I would have gone with the scorched earth response, but I think this worked too.

Lord, beer me strength.

by doublegoldandblack on Feb 9, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

There’s hope for the internet after all….

See ya in Indy.

Go, fight, and win.

by Alex O on Feb 9, 2010 1:31 PM EST reply actions  

Sweet!

Glad to share this moment in history with you TMills. We came together for an internet first. Yeah baby!

by Syracuse Ben on Feb 9, 2010 3:30 PM EST reply actions  

Lemoyne Game

I think I need to explain to you what a preseason game is. It is a game that is played before the season that helps teams get ready for the season ahead. they are played in all sports and in no way an indication of how the team will perform during the season, The Indianapolis Colts had 1 win and 3 losses in their preseason. Including a loss to Detroit. I don’t remember anyone questioning the ability of the Colts in November.

by Cuseman on Feb 9, 2010 3:57 PM EST reply actions  

Then ranked major conference teams must lose them all the time

And it is never noteworthy. I say again. There is no way that a Purdue loss to Kentucky Wesleyan or California of Pennsylvania wouldn’t have been mentioned or throw in our face. They schedule these against Division II teams for a reason: They are expected to be blowouts in favor of the major conference team so they can work on things and play freshmen. If a ranked team loses to a Division II team, even in an exhibition, it is a big deal.

And to those arguing on NFL exhibition games, there is a HUGE difference.

1. They are against other NFL teams. An apt comparison would be like the Saints playing Ball State
2. They barely play the starters in most games. College basketball exhibitions, by nature, see the starters often play a lot.

A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance

HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog

by BoilerTMill on Feb 9, 2010 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

So when are you getting that bonus check?

I mean you only brought in like 5 billion Syracuse fans and probably doubled the registered users on SBNation and got mentioned on ESPN. Thats worthy of something.

Next Up: John Wall is the most overrated player in college basketball
(joke)

by triallen on Feb 9, 2010 5:31 PM EST reply actions  

Can we please go after John Wall?

We should probably wait until after this weekend when he gets back from the NBA All Star Game.

Lord, beer me strength.

by doublegoldandblack on Feb 9, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know

I live kind of close to Kentucky. I don’t want thousands of rednecks trying to cross the Ohio in rafts made out of empty beer cans.

by triallen on Feb 9, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

And it begins

Good thing beer cans that have been crushed on foreheads don’t float very well.

Lord, beer me strength.

by doublegoldandblack on Feb 9, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

Thanks for the classy apology. Also congrats on Brees. He is truly a class act and I think anyone would be proud to have him as an alumni.

by CapitalOrange on Feb 9, 2010 6:19 PM EST reply actions  

What I don't get......

Is why so many of my fellow Syracuse fans still get so defensive every time an outsider brings up the LeMoyne loss. In my admittedly biased and subjective opinion I’ve never seen a team respond better to negative pub. If I had my way the athletic department would piece together a montage featuring highlights of that game followed by pundits snarky early season remarks about the loss to a DII school and play it on the video board before every game for the remainder of the season.

by Orange Koolaid on Feb 9, 2010 7:28 PM EST reply actions  

Excellent point

I want to say the same thing happened to Michigan State (lost to Grand Valley State) before a Final Four year, so there is a precedent.

A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance

HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog

by BoilerTMill on Feb 9, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

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